It is currently Thu May 02, 2024 2:20 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:48 pm 
I'll simply say that speaking solely for myself, a man who lived abroad during the invasion of Iraq and a man who has been back since the election of Obama, I challenge anyone to deny that the the attitude towards not only America but the overall climate of the the World's political stage has changed for the better. We can certainly argue the merit of other nominees and call into question passed recipients but one has to admit (if you have left North America for any significant time within the last few years both pre and post Bush regime) that the overall feeling outside of of the United States is much more peaceful and positive when compared to the egotistical military first approach of the Bush-Cheny group. The future will tell us if Obama lives up to the Prize by being a peace time president or a war time one, but the nomination according to the Nobel panel and the global community signifies the change that occurred when the Bush-Cheny regime of hate and fear was replaced by a President who favors multilateralism.

I know that nothing I say will make a dent in the blanket "anti-Obama" views of some of you but coming from a guy who has spent a lot of the last ten years talking to people from all over the world and experiencing the military life first hand, Obama has done a lot for our country and the world by simply not being a bully president which speaks more to how far Bush damaged America in terms of the World Stage rather than what Obama has accomplished on paper.

Also...before you come back calling me an Obama cheer leader, when one can appreciate the positive impact a change in leadership of a powerful country can do for the world it does not make that person a blind cheer leader. It shows that the person has the life experience to distinguish between the two sides of blind faith and blind hate. Both extremes are useless and only have their own agendas in mind.


Here's a good article on the subject:


Quote:
During the initial 24-hour news cycle following the announcement that the President of the United States had won the Nobel Peace Prize we heard all manner of demeaning, diminishing, and ridiculing of the President and the prize. Beltway pundits David Brooks and Ruth Marcus appearing on Jim Lehrer's News Hour both bashed President Obama and the Nobel prize as being unwarranted and insignificant. Brooks called it "a joke." On Democracy Now! I heard Naomi Klein say pretty much the same thing as the Beltway savants. A lot of commentators heaped praise on John McCain for being "gracious" because he didn't diss Obama for winning the prize. But what would you expect that grumpy old man to do? Spit bile all over it like the rest of his Republican colleagues?

The cynical and sordid response in America raises a few questions: Have we lost the ability as a nation to accept something good when it comes our way internationally? Have we become so traumatized by the belligerent Bush-Cheney-Bolton unilateral militarism of the previous eight years, with its attendant hatred for the world and its people, that we are incapable of recognizing the simple fact that it is much better for America to have a president who is admired and respected in the world than one who is despised and feared?

It wasn't long ago when Republicans and right-wingers across the country (the evolutionary predecessors of the Tea Baggers) were pouring out French wine into gutters and burning Dixie Chick CDs in protest of anyone who had the wisdom or forethought to try to warn us that invading Iraq, toppling its government, and militarily occupying the country without international support might not be a good idea. The Franco-phobia ran so deep that Republicans in Congress, led by Representative Bob Ney (who is now fittingly in prison), changed the name of "French Fries" in the House cafeteria to "Freedom Fries." Anyone not going along with the party line that invading Iraq was a vital national project had his or her patriotism questioned and was silenced in the mainstream media.

Fast forward to the 2008 Republican National Convention and we hear Rudy Giuliani demean and diminish Obama's experience as a "community organizer," which was one of the more memorable laugh lines from the gathering. And then from that point onward just about everything Obama has achieved has been met with withering sarcasm and ridicule. He sends Bill Clinton to free American prisoners in North Korea and it turns out to be a stunning success that offers a breakthrough in relations with that weird and dangerous nation and the media greet the news with a collective yawn. His efforts to win the 2016 Olympics are fruitless but provide hours of content for right-wing bloviators who ridicule and demean his effort. He wins the Nobel Peace Prize and these same gasbags trash the Nobel Prize and the President. David Brooks said on the News Hour that "nobody cares what five Norwegian guys" think.

What's missed in the deafening cacophony of right-wing noise and chatter is that Americans should use this Nobel Prize as yet another Obama-inspired "teaching moment" to come to terms with just how much George W. Bush's foreign policy scared the hell out of the rest of the world. And we should understand how the world is relieved Americans came to their senses and looks to us for global leadership.

To illustrate this point one only has to compare the media coverage of Bush's landing on the aircraft carrier the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln off the San Diego coast on May 1, 2003. Chris Matthews and the rest of the political media talking heads embarked on hours of breathless commentary about how regal and wonderful the spectacle was and how proud they all were to be Americans and blah, blah, blah. G. Gordon Liddy even spoke admiringly of the bulge in President Bush's codpiece. Masculine virility and macho militarism was fused with the national symbols of the flag and the military.

Europeans have seen this before. When we were engaged in our little rah-rah rally, the rest of the world was absolutely horrified. The biggest military power on Earth was acting belligerent and its president was indulging in bombastic nationalistic grandstanding. And this display was happening at the same time Baghdad was gearing up for a horrific sectarian bloodbath that everyone seemed to be able to see except for the Americans and their imperial president prancing in a flight suit and declaring "Mission Accomplished."

What Bush did was shift the posture of American foreign policy toward militarism and unilateralism, and he did so with a jingoistic right-wing Christian fundamentalist flair. President Obama, in less than ten months, has reset American foreign policy more toward multilateralism and a mature engagement with the world.

He has a long way to go and things might not work out. But at least he is moving in the right direction. The Nobel committee was just trying to give him a nudge. It's a symbolic prize. I don't understand the vitriol aimed at the President for winning it. But it is an international recognition that Obama is at least on the right track.

If the media would only cover Obama's peace prize win with half as much enthusiasm as they did Bush's landing on the aircraft carrier we might have made some measurable progress. We'll have to wait for Obama's next success and see what happens. Maybe all the demeaning and diminishing of Obama will grow old and tired, boring and repetitive, and then the media can move on to find something else to ridicule. But I won't hold my breath.


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a- ... 16385.html


Top
  
 
ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:12 pm 
Offline
Captain Dynasty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 15390
Location: michigan
the dude abides by the above post, man.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Crosscheck
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:36 pm 
Offline
Sober enough to run a server
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 7475
Location: 2,568 miles from the F'n arena
Displaced Fan wrote:
We can certainly argue the merit of other nominees and call into question passed recipients but one has to admit (if you have left North America for any significant time within the last few years both pre and post Bush regime) that the overall feeling outside of of the United States is much more peaceful and positive when compared to the egotistical military first approach of the Bush-Cheny group.


No offense, but that's just some more of the same squishy, non-quantifiable, touchy-feely nonsense cited by the Nobel panel themselves.
What has the man done to make the world more peaceful?
I'm talking about wars ended, treaties signed, heated tensions diffused...you know, actual results.

Obama won a peace award because he likes to talk about peace.
Well isn't that nice.

I like to talk about hookers and blow but they never show up on my doorstep. I guess I should send my request to Norway.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...


Top
 Profile  
 
End The Curse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:47 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:45 am
Posts: 3798
Location: Boca Raton
Displaced Fan wrote:
If the media would only cover Obama's peace prize win with half as much enthusiasm as they did Bush's landing on the aircraft carrier we might have made some measurable progress.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This line had me rolling on the floor with laughter...if only the media were more enthusiastic to Obama???

Image

_________________
Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.


Top
 Profile  
 
Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:08 pm 
Like I said:
Displaced Fan wrote:
I know that nothing I say will make a dent in the blanket "anti-Obama" views of some of you


If you honestly think that a change in how the world views America and improvements to our foreign policies hasn't had a quantifiable impact to world peace then like I said, leave America and talk to the other people on this planet. This may come as a shock but we're not the center of the world and origin of all that is right. Acting like we are partners with other nations instead of the school yard bully surprisingly is beneficial...imagine that! :dance:

But like I said, this guy could single-handedly save a bus full of Jerry's kids from going over a cliff and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a thread was started here titled "Obama "saves" Jerry's kids :roll:"


Top
  
 
Crosscheck
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:23 pm 
Offline
Sober enough to run a server
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 7475
Location: 2,568 miles from the F'n arena
Displaced Fan wrote:
I know that nothing I say will make a dent in the blanket "anti-Obama" views of some of you
I'm not anti-Obama, I'm anti just about every policy position he holds.
Quote:
If you honestly think that a change in how the world views America and improvements to our foreign policies hasn't had a quantifiable impact to world peace then like I said, leave America and talk to the other people on this planet.

Then quantify it for me.

...and here's a sample of what the rest of the world thinks about the matter:
The Netherlands
Quote:
”What got into the committee to award this prize to a man who has yet to live up to the high expectations? Were they drunk?”

Quote:
”It’s clear that Obama has increasingly more difficulty meeting expectations. His inspiring words about peace and deproliferation have yet to be supported by any concrete results. What is meant to be a reward [for great achievements], could very well end up being tremendous burden for Obama.”


The UK
Quote:
“To reward him for a blank results sheet, to inflate him when he has no achievements to his name, makes a mockery of what, let’s face it, is an already fairly discredited process (remember Rigoberta Menchu in 1992? Ha!).

Quote:
“Instead, the prize risks looking preposterous in its claims, patronising in its intentions and demeaning in its attempt to build up a man who has barely begun his period in office, let alone achieved any tangible outcome for peace.”

Quote:
“Which is what makes the awarding of this year’s prize to a president who has been in office for a mere nine months an odd departure. It is as if the prize committee had been persuaded to give the award on the future delivery of promises.”


Italy
Quote:
“Let me be clear: the discourse on Islam in Cairo was beautiful, tall, and it opens up new horizons, but did not lead to anything. And on the other matter, as pointed out repeatedly in this blog, Obama has been evasive or inconclusive, starting with Iran and Afghanistan. Nor can he boast the merits of rapprochement with North Korea, which was brought about by Bill Clinton. He kept only one real promise: the gradual withdrawal from Iraq. Enough to deserve the Nobel Prize?”


Germany
Quote:
“The Nobel Peace Prize has come too early for Barack Obama. The US president cannot point to any real diplomatic successes to date and there are few prospects of any to come.”


Canada
Quote:
“Obama is being given his award for mere words — for striking fashionable poses in favour of multilateralism, for making a nice speech in Cairo, for offering “hope.” Months after Americans learned to dismiss Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign slogans as the meaningless bromides they were, Scandinavians are still drinking his Kool-aid.”

^^^and most of those sources are left leaning news outlets like Der Spiegel.^^^
http://www.poligazette.com/2009/10/10/f ... e-victory/

And that's from the much friendlier part of the world...an Afghan leader was quoted as saying Obama should have been awarded the "Nobel prize for killing women and civilians"

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...


Top
 Profile  
 
ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:24 pm 
Offline
Captain Dynasty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 15390
Location: michigan
killing women and civilians? what?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Crosscheck
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:27 pm 
Offline
Sober enough to run a server
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 7475
Location: 2,568 miles from the F'n arena
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
killing women and civilians? what?

The Taliban don't like Obama because he kills them....peacefully of course.

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...


Top
 Profile  
 
mechaphil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:31 pm 
Offline
Thy Horror Cosmic
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:57 pm
Posts: 19086
Location: BFLO
I still say, Obama calling Kanye a jackass = Obama getting a Nobel prize :D

_________________
mechaphil


Top
 Profile  
 
Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:41 pm 
Crosscheck wrote:
Displaced Fan wrote:
I know that nothing I say will make a dent in the blanket "anti-Obama" views of some of you
I'm not anti-Obama, I'm anti just about every policy position he holds.
Quote:
If you honestly think that a change in how the world views America and improvements to our foreign policies hasn't had a quantifiable impact to world peace then like I said, leave America and talk to the other people on this planet.

Then quantify it for me.

...and here's a sample of what the rest of the world thinks about the matter:
The Netherlands
Quote:
”What got into the committee to award this prize to a man who has yet to live up to the high expectations? Were they drunk?”

Quote:
”It’s clear that Obama has increasingly more difficulty meeting expectations. His inspiring words about peace and deproliferation have yet to be supported by any concrete results. What is meant to be a reward [for great achievements], could very well end up being tremendous burden for Obama.”


The UK
Quote:
“To reward him for a blank results sheet, to inflate him when he has no achievements to his name, makes a mockery of what, let’s face it, is an already fairly discredited process (remember Rigoberta Menchu in 1992? Ha!).

Quote:
“Instead, the prize risks looking preposterous in its claims, patronising in its intentions and demeaning in its attempt to build up a man who has barely begun his period in office, let alone achieved any tangible outcome for peace.”

Quote:
“Which is what makes the awarding of this year’s prize to a president who has been in office for a mere nine months an odd departure. It is as if the prize committee had been persuaded to give the award on the future delivery of promises.”


Italy
Quote:
“Let me be clear: the discourse on Islam in Cairo was beautiful, tall, and it opens up new horizons, but did not lead to anything. And on the other matter, as pointed out repeatedly in this blog, Obama has been evasive or inconclusive, starting with Iran and Afghanistan. Nor can he boast the merits of rapprochement with North Korea, which was brought about by Bill Clinton. He kept only one real promise: the gradual withdrawal from Iraq. Enough to deserve the Nobel Prize?”


Germany
Quote:
“The Nobel Peace Prize has come too early for Barack Obama. The US president cannot point to any real diplomatic successes to date and there are few prospects of any to come.”


Canada
Quote:
“Obama is being given his award for mere words — for striking fashionable poses in favour of multilateralism, for making a nice speech in Cairo, for offering “hope.” Months after Americans learned to dismiss Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign slogans as the meaningless bromides they were, Scandinavians are still drinking his Kool-aid.”

^^^and most of those sources are left leaning news outlets like Der Spiegel.^^^
http://www.poligazette.com/2009/10/10/f ... e-victory/

And that's from the much friendlier part of the world...an Afghan leader was quoted as saying Obama should have been awarded the "Nobel prize for killing women and civilians"


Well of course when I said that the overall opinion of America in the eyes of the world has improved I meant every single person. :roll:


Top
  
 
Crosscheck
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:33 pm 
Offline
Sober enough to run a server
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 7475
Location: 2,568 miles from the F'n arena
Displaced Fan wrote:
Well of course when I said that the overall opinion of America in the eyes of the world has improved I meant every single person. :roll:


The rest of the world will have a better opinion of the US when Barack gives them a roundhouse kick to the face wearing a pair of these bad-boys
Image
...and no one wants that.

/maybe he's got an honorary black-belt in Rex-Kwan-Do too ;)

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...


Top
 Profile  
 
TRBirdman
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:20 pm 
Offline
Brawler
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:02 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Connecticut (Buffalonian in exile)
Crosscheck wrote:
I'm not anti-Obama, I'm anti just about every policy position he holds.

EXACTLY!

I'm sure O is a very nice guy, and truth to tell, it would be fun palling around with him at a party or shooting hoops.

Back in the day, I often said the same thing about Bubba. (Due to O and recent current events, I've had disturbingly warm, fuzzy, nostalgic thoughts about Bubba's reign, thinking that it wasn't so bad back then. :shock: Never thought I'd say that!)

Displaced Fan wrote:
This may come as a shock but we're not the center of the world and origin of all that is right.

The bold experiment that is the USA - the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights - is unique in the history of the world.

Considering such, I would say, yes, that we are the center of the world and are the origin of all that is right, and the rest of the world suffering from low self esteem is just too dam bad.

I believe that all of us here support peace, love, and understanding (Elvis Costello!), but we simply differ in how to get there.

With age and experience, this has become more true to me:
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are,
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

~President Ronald Reagan


Top
 Profile  
 
Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:06 pm 
TRBirdman wrote:
Considering such, I would say, yes, that we are the center of the world and are the origin of all that is right, and the rest of the world suffering from low self esteem is just too dam bad.


Wow...not much I can say to someone who thinks this way. This ethnocentric, ego based mind set has repercussions, but fuck it right? It's not your life out there on the line in Iraq or Afghanistan.
USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!


Top
  
 
Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:29 am 
Offline
Sober enough to run a server
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 7475
Location: 2,568 miles from the F'n arena
I'll just leave this here for everyone defending Obama getting the prize...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... Zu4BHMqFdw

_________________
Hold my beer and watch this...


Top
 Profile  
 
dontbethatguy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:42 pm 
Offline
Brawler
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:21 pm
Posts: 321
It's lose lose situation for Obama. Had the guy thrown his hat into the ring and campaigned for the prize it would be one thing. The ironic part is he didn't do anything to win this in the sense that he didn't try to win this by campaigning for it/nominating himself AND when he was nominated he had only been in office for like what 11 days? So he hadn't done anything up to that point either.

If he rejects it he can win. To some he'll be seen as elitist. To others it's the right thing. To others they don't care if he wins or loses, Jon & Kate Plus 8 is on. The judges in this case are morons. Obama never should have been in the running in all seriousness. Yet he won.

_________________
All the things we wanted each other to be we'll never be.


Top
 Profile  
 
SabresBillsBandits
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:32 am 
Offline
Late-Round Gem
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:20 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg
I dont think obama deserved the nobel peace prize because he hasnt done anything yet. lets see what he does in a couple of years and see what hes accomplished but up until now hes done nothing.


Top
 Profile  
 
CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:47 pm 
Offline
Captain Dynasty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 16859
Displaced Fan wrote:
TRBirdman wrote:
Considering such, I would say, yes, that we are the center of the world and are the origin of all that is right, and the rest of the world suffering from low self esteem is just too dam bad.


Wow...not much I can say to someone who thinks this way. This ethnocentric, ego based mind set has repercussions, but fuck it right? It's not your life out there on the line in Iraq or Afghanistan.
USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!


What do you know, what with your personal experiences and all that hogwash anyways?

_________________
Proud LGBTQQ Individual


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron