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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:57 am 
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This is just sad. We can't tax the top 1% but fuck it, let's cut shit from veteran and active duty medical benefits. I have lots to say about this but fuck it, I'm not surprised.

http://www.stripes.com/military-of-two-minds-over-super-committee-success-1.161037

My favorite part of the article:

Quote:
Arnold Punaro is a member of the Defense Business Board, an advisory group of executives to the secretary of defense, which has recommended major changes to Tricare and future retirement plans to bring personnel costs under control. Punaro, a retired Marine Corps Reserve major general, said most military retirees are ready to accept reasonable fee increases if told the facts about the department’s soaring health care costs.

“Retirees get it,” he said. “They say, ‘Look, if everybody is sacrificing, we’re willing to pay our fair share.’
They don’t want to see a weak military 20 years from now. They don’t want to see the volunteer force get hollow.”


Fuck you Punaro you fucking butt-tard.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:25 am 
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He's a retired major general - his retirement check isn't exactly small. Fucking cunt.

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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:22 am 
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NYIntensity wrote:
He's a retired major general - his retirement check isn't exactly small. Fucking cunt.

Exactly. I'm sure he's qualified to speak for a guy getting an E-7 retirement or a someone who got out on disability and relies on his VA medical to pay for pain management and other things. Classy. Not to mention the fact that most times the military member's spouse could never get a well paying job because they moved every few years during their time in service so there isn't usually a retirment check from that side either. Now they want to mess with active duty members Tricare benefits too. But yup, a general with a fat retirement who had political ties through his military life and got a nice job after getting out knows all about living pay check to pay check.

Why is pulling out of two wars not an option to lower the budget? Why can we not tax millionaires more but we can steal from the middle class? I think it is cute when the right talks about class warfare...yes those poor poor rich people.

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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:07 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
He's a retired major general - his retirement check isn't exactly small. Fucking cunt.

Exactly. I'm sure he's qualified to speak for a guy getting an E-7 retirement or a someone who got out on disability and relies on his VA medical to pay for pain management and other things. Classy. Not to mention the fact that most times the military member's spouse could never get a well paying job because they moved every few years during their time in service so there isn't usually a retirment check from that side either. Now they want to mess with active duty members Tricare benefits too. But yup, a general with a fat retirement who had political ties through his military life and got a nice job after getting out knows all about living pay check to pay check.

Why is pulling out of two wars not an option to lower the budget? Why can we not tax millionaires more but we can steal from the middle class? I think it is cute when the right talks about class warfare...yes those poor poor rich people.


I don't have the feeling that your government is acting in the US-citizens' favour. (grammar ok? :) )

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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
I don't have the feeling that your government is acting in the US-citizens' favour. (grammar ok? :) )

Grammar is fine but you used the Canadian spelling of favor :lol:

Simply put, this government has completely turned its back on the middle and lower class in favor of making the rich richer. Happy times.

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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
I don't have the feeling that your government is acting in the US-citizens' favour. (grammar ok? :) )

Grammar is fine but you used the Canadian spelling of favor :lol:

Simply put, this government has completely turned its back on the middle and lower class in favor of making the rich richer. Happy times.


sorry for the Oxford English :) . that's europe....... ;)

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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
I don't have the feeling that your government is acting in the US-citizens' favour. (grammar ok? :) )

Grammar is fine but you used the Canadian spelling of favor :lol:

Simply put, this government has completely turned its back on the middle and lower class in favor of making the rich richer. Happy times.


sorry for the Oxford English :) . that's europe....... ;)


I'm just busting your balls. I actually lived in Germany for four years and visited Austria pretty often. For a second language you're doing better than 99% of the people on this forum. :lol:

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:34 pm 
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I AM THE 1%

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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
I don't have the feeling that your government is acting in the US-citizens' favour. (grammar ok? :) )

Grammar is fine but you used the Canadian spelling of favor :lol:

Simply put, this government has completely turned its back on the middle and lower class in favor of making the rich richer. Happy times.


sorry for the Oxford English :) . that's europe....... ;)


I'm just busting your balls. I actually lived in Germany for four years and visited Austria pretty often. For a second language you're doing better than 99% of the people on this forum. :lol:


third language ;) Upperaustrian (unofficial) German English and Latine (not dead)

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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
third language ;) Upperaustrian (unofficial) German English and Latine (not dead)


Pump your breaks, now you're just showing off. :lol:

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Yhoshi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
third language ;) Upperaustrian (unofficial) German English and Latine (not dead)


Pump your breaks, now you're just showing off. :lol:


:lol: was my intention . I can't speak Latine fluently (only translate it into German)

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AudSabres
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:05 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
third language ;) Upperaustrian (unofficial) German English and Latine (not dead)


Pump your breaks, now you're just showing off. :lol:


:lol: was my intention . I can't speak Latine fluently (only translate it into German)


Although English is my official language, I’m also fluent in Profanity, Drunkenness and Hockey-Speak.

Any room for one more in this language-pissing contest? :lol:

Edit: Hope my comment didn't come across as being a dick or smart ass. I think it's cool that you guys can speak other languages rather than just your native tongue!

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Montalo
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:36 am 
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AudSabres wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
third language ;) Upperaustrian (unofficial) German English and Latine (not dead)


Pump your breaks, now you're just showing off. :lol:


:lol: was my intention . I can't speak Latine fluently (only translate it into German)


Although English is my official language, I’m also fluent in Profanity, Drunkenness and Hockey-Speak.

Any room for one more in this language-pissing contest? :lol:

Edit: Hope my comment didn't come across as being a dick or smart ass. I think it's cool that you guys can speak other languages rather than just your native tongue!

my french is passable, not to mention, like aud, i am very fluent in profanity

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Yhoshi wrote:
Displaced Fan wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
third language ;) Upperaustrian (unofficial) German English and Latine (not dead)


Pump your breaks, now you're just showing off. :lol:


:lol: was my intention . I can't speak Latine fluently (only translate it into German)

No one can except priests. That's because it's a dead language.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:51 pm 
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OK, now I'm going to broach a possibly controversial subject. One thing that really gets my goat is the way that so many people who are against government-provided healthcare also think that veterans deserve free medical care for life. (I'm not pointing my finger at any of the veterans here in particular)Their logic usually goes something like "They served their country, they deserve to be taken care of".

I agree with that sentiment. What I don't like is the exclusion of all non-military workers. Something about that language "served their country", just pisses the hell out of me. Not because they didn't serve their country, but because I think to have a functioning society (which we do), everyone, or at the very least most people, have to serve their country. Don't doctors, nurses, taxi-drivers, dishwashers, receptionists, cashiers, garbage and mailmen, teachers, truck drivers, etc. ALL serve their country? I get that the military are putting themselves in danger for the sake of the greater good, but they're not the only ones.

Again, this isn't meant to call out any of you veterans on here, or to belittle the job of soldier. I just wish more people would see the value of treating everyone the way they'd like veterans to be treated (including veterans themselves because though politicians act like they care about veterans, veterans are still often treated like shit).


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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
OK, now I'm going to broach a possibly controversial subject. One thing that really gets my goat is the way that so many people who are against government-provided healthcare also think that veterans deserve free medical care for life. (I'm not pointing my finger at any of the veterans here in particular)Their logic usually goes something like "They served their country, they deserve to be taken care of".

I agree with that sentiment. What I don't like is the exclusion of all non-military workers. Something about that language "served their country", just pisses the hell out of me. Not because they didn't serve their country, but because I think to have a functioning society (which we do), everyone, or at the very least most people, have to serve their country. Don't doctors, nurses, taxi-drivers, dishwashers, receptionists, cashiers, garbage and mailmen, teachers, truck drivers, etc. ALL serve their country? I get that the military are putting themselves in danger for the sake of the greater good, but they're not the only ones.

Again, this isn't meant to call out any of you veterans on here, or to belittle the job of soldier. I just wish more people would see the value of treating everyone the way they'd like veterans to be treated (including veterans themselves because though politicians act like they care about veterans, veterans are still often treated like shit).

No, nobody should get anything from the government, because it's socialism. The founding fathers would have never asked for anything. If you want something, then at least take it from the poor.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
OK, now I'm going to broach a possibly controversial subject. One thing that really gets my goat is the way that so many people who are against government-provided healthcare also think that veterans deserve free medical care for life. (I'm not pointing my finger at any of the veterans here in particular)Their logic usually goes something like "They served their country, they deserve to be taken care of".

I agree with that sentiment. What I don't like is the exclusion of all non-military workers. Something about that language "served their country", just pisses the hell out of me. Not because they didn't serve their country, but because I think to have a functioning society (which we do), everyone, or at the very least most people, have to serve their country. Don't doctors, nurses, taxi-drivers, dishwashers, receptionists, cashiers, garbage and mailmen, teachers, truck drivers, etc. ALL serve their country? I get that the military are putting themselves in danger for the sake of the greater good, but they're not the only ones.

Again, this isn't meant to call out any of you veterans on here, or to belittle the job of soldier. I just wish more people would see the value of treating everyone the way they'd like veterans to be treated (including veterans themselves because though politicians act like they care about veterans, veterans are still often treated like shit).


Well, I'm probably the exception to the rule, but I haven't received any free health care. Maybe because I don't know it's available to me?

I don't think if I spend anything less than 20 years in that I should receive free health care for life (outside any service-related injuries); even those who serve 20 years and retire still have to pay for health care unless they hit some magic number for % disabled, IIRC.

As far as retirement wages go, I 100% believe that vets who serve 20+ years should get their retirement. Many that I know end up getting jobs working at Home Depot or other working-class jobs because while you may be the shit at what you do in the military, it doesn't mean there's a direct civilian correlation.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:19 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
OK, now I'm going to broach a possibly controversial subject. One thing that really gets my goat is the way that so many people who are against government-provided healthcare also think that veterans deserve free medical care for life. (I'm not pointing my finger at any of the veterans here in particular)Their logic usually goes something like "They served their country, they deserve to be taken care of".

I agree with that sentiment. What I don't like is the exclusion of all non-military workers. Something about that language "served their country", just pisses the hell out of me. Not because they didn't serve their country, but because I think to have a functioning society (which we do), everyone, or at the very least most people, have to serve their country. Don't doctors, nurses, taxi-drivers, dishwashers, receptionists, cashiers, garbage and mailmen, teachers, truck drivers, etc. ALL serve their country? I get that the military are putting themselves in danger for the sake of the greater good, but they're not the only ones.

Again, this isn't meant to call out any of you veterans on here, or to belittle the job of soldier. I just wish more people would see the value of treating everyone the way they'd like veterans to be treated (including veterans themselves because though politicians act like they care about veterans, veterans are still often treated like shit).


Well, I'm probably the exception to the rule, but I haven't received any free health care. Maybe because I don't know it's available to me?

I don't think if I spend anything less than 20 years in that I should receive free health care for life (outside any service-related injuries); even those who serve 20 years and retire still have to pay for health care unless they hit some magic number for % disabled, IIRC.

As far as retirement wages go, I 100% believe that vets who serve 20+ years should get their retirement. Many that I know end up getting jobs working at Home Depot or other working-class jobs because while you may be the shit at what you do in the military, it doesn't mean there's a direct civilian correlation.

Not sure what the policies are, but I think if you find yourself without insurance, you can get treated at the VA Hospital. I know that's not the best care, but it's free.

As far as 20 years in the service before getting care...I disagree if you're a combat veteran. I had a great uncle who didn't serve for 20 years, but his brain never really came back from WWII. They used to call it shell-shock in his day. Now they call it PTSD. Just a little combat can result in that as far as I can tell. So I think if the government is willing to put people in that kind of danger, even for a day, they ought to be there to care for them later in life, whether it's an ailment of mind OR body (they are really the same after all).


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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Not sure what the policies are, but I think if you find yourself without insurance, you can get treated at the VA Hospital. I know that's not the best care, but it's free.

As far as 20 years in the service before getting care...I disagree if you're a combat veteran. I had a great uncle who didn't serve for 20 years, but his brain never really came back from WWII. They used to call it shell-shock in his day. Now they call it PTSD. Just a little combat can result in that as far as I can tell. So I think if the government is willing to put people in that kind of danger, even for a day, they ought to be there to care for them later in life, whether it's an ailment of mind OR body (they are really the same after all).


Aside from retirees or those that have service related disabilities you do not get health care after you get out. Those that do retire after 20 years pay a monthly premium and co-pays as well so it isn't "free". Also...if you have ever been to a VA clinic you know that the facilities and the care you receive aren't always stellar. For example, I served four years and get zero health care since I stayed healthy while I was in and didn't get hurt in combat. My only benefit is my GI Bill which I paid into while I was active duty....yes, again it isn't free...we pay for it like a mutual fund. My wife is active duty and she gets full health care while active. My kids and I get free medical but I pay for dental for myself and the kids and pay a co-pay for anything downtown, which is anything outside of a routine visit since most clinics don't see dependents (though the kids are seen on base at pediatrics). When my wife retires she will have to pay a premium each month to keep her coverage and it will shift from active duty hospitals on a base to a VA facility off base which is nearly always a million times shittier....trust me, I've worked in many. Their was a time when veterans could make appointments in active duty clinics but now it is only standby appointments at some bases and a no veteran policy at most. (I was a medic and my wife is one now)

As far as your earlier statement:
Quote:
Don't doctors, nurses, taxi-drivers, dishwashers, receptionists, cashiers, garbage and mailmen, teachers, truck drivers, etc. ALL serve their country? I get that the military are putting themselves in danger for the sake of the greater good, but they're not the only ones.


If you think that there is no difference between working a job and serving in the military then it may do you some good to go enlist for a few years and then come talk about this when you have a bit of perspective.

You are given these incentives as military members because you can be called up any minute of your enlistment and find yourself being shipped to some hell hole. You leave your spouse, your friends and your children to go live in a tent in hostile desert territory. The government needs people to fight and to serve and since not everyone enlists on patriotism alone the government offers bonuses and incentives to make it more appealing. When you enlist you expect the contract you signed to be honored after honoring your service.

On a side note, we just found out today that my wife will be leaving us to go to Kuwait in April for a 6-12 month deployment. My children and I won't see her the entire time she is deployed. The good thing is that 6 months is a short deployment and Kuwait is safer than other hot spots. How many dishwashers, mailmen, cashiers or teachers get that call?

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:00 am 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
OK, now I'm going to broach a possibly controversial subject. One thing that really gets my goat is the way that so many people who are against government-provided healthcare also think that veterans deserve free medical care for life. (I'm not pointing my finger at any of the veterans here in particular)Their logic usually goes something like "They served their country, they deserve to be taken care of".

I agree with that sentiment. What I don't like is the exclusion of all non-military workers. Something about that language "served their country", just pisses the hell out of me. Not because they didn't serve their country, but because I think to have a functioning society (which we do), everyone, or at the very least most people, have to serve their country. Don't doctors, nurses, taxi-drivers, dishwashers, receptionists, cashiers, garbage and mailmen, teachers, truck drivers, etc. ALL serve their country? I get that the military are putting themselves in danger for the sake of the greater good, but they're not the only ones.

Again, this isn't meant to call out any of you veterans on here, or to belittle the job of soldier. I just wish more people would see the value of treating everyone the way they'd like veterans to be treated (including veterans themselves because though politicians act like they care about veterans, veterans are still often treated like shit).


Well, I'm probably the exception to the rule, but I haven't received any free health care. Maybe because I don't know it's available to me?

I don't think if I spend anything less than 20 years in that I should receive free health care for life (outside any service-related injuries); even those who serve 20 years and retire still have to pay for health care unless they hit some magic number for % disabled, IIRC.

As far as retirement wages go, I 100% believe that vets who serve 20+ years should get their retirement. Many that I know end up getting jobs working at Home Depot or other working-class jobs because while you may be the shit at what you do in the military, it doesn't mean there's a direct civilian correlation.

Not sure what the policies are, but I think if you find yourself without insurance, you can get treated at the VA Hospital. I know that's not the best care, but it's free.

As far as 20 years in the service before getting care...I disagree if you're a combat veteran. I had a great uncle who didn't serve for 20 years, but his brain never really came back from WWII. They used to call it shell-shock in his day. Now they call it PTSD. Just a little combat can result in that as far as I can tell. So I think if the government is willing to put people in that kind of danger, even for a day, they ought to be there to care for them later in life, whether it's an ailment of mind OR body (they are really the same after all).


If you're diagnosed with PTSD, it becomes part of your disability %, and you DO get taken care of (nowadays).

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