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Crosscheck
 Post subject: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:55 pm 
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While no one was looking, dumped late last Friday was an executive order more or less giving the President the power to enforce peacetime martial law.

Sleep well citizens and remember: It's Republicans that are the fascists.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-bla ... 59715.html
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/45319
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... eparedness

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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:09 pm 
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How the fuck is this even allowed?

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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Also, what the fuck is up with this?!

"and even provides the option to re-enable a draft in order to achieve both the military and non-military demands of the country, according to a simple reading of the text."

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Not overly surprised about the draft since the military enrollment numbers have plummeted

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YankeeInRaleigh
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:41 pm 
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While I'm disgusted he is allowing shit like this to happen, i'm glad we dont have a republican in office, because we'd probably be at war with: Syria, Iran, N.Korea, that other fucking country that looked at us sideways, etc etc.


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YankeeInRaleigh
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Ok, so, had to get my snark at republicans in, of course :)

Now...after reading a bit more, this is seriously fucked. I seriously do not understand why he is allowing the proliferation of governmental rights like this. Like I said before, I dont think it would be any better with Republicans, in fact I think they would take even more powers, but thats beside the point.

How the hell do we go about taking power back from government? Clearly a third party candidate will not get any traction, hell, even when one of them dresses up in sheeps clothing they are still ignored (Paul) and get no traction. Are we seriously this entrenched in a 2 party system? Is it going to take something utterly devastating to get us out of this system which keeps power in the hands of the powerful?

Fuckin A. This shit is getting kind of scary.


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NYIntensity
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:27 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
Not overly surprised about the draft since the military enrollment numbers have plummeted

The military's recruiting efforts have plummeted. The military is one of the only viable post-high school careers that will give you full time hours/pay and anything resembling benefits.

The Marine Corps, for example, is in an aggressive effort to cut their numbers from ~220,000 to 140,000. Their war effort is dying down, they don't need as many people.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:38 pm 
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YankeeInRaleigh wrote:
Ok, so, had to get my snark at republicans in, of course :)

Now...after reading a bit more, this is seriously fucked. I seriously do not understand why he is allowing the proliferation of governmental rights like this. Like I said before, I dont think it would be any better with Republicans, in fact I think they would take even more powers, but thats beside the point.

How the hell do we go about taking power back from government? Clearly a third party candidate will not get any traction, hell, even when one of them dresses up in sheeps clothing they are still ignored (Paul) and get no traction. Are we seriously this entrenched in a 2 party system? Is it going to take something utterly devastating to get us out of this system which keeps power in the hands of the powerful?

Fuckin A. This shit is getting kind of scary.

Scary? How about this says action is going to occur soon, very soon. They are backing themselves for whatever type of recourse would come as a result of Iran's(China and/or Russia's) reaction. Obama is a Libo, right?


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Don't understand why we're not just washing our hands of the whole Iran situation. Yeah, let's start a war, and have our president assume control of all our natural resources because Israel is scared. Why aren't we just staying out of it? If we did, Iran-U.S relations would surely improve, and we'd still have our oil...

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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:58 pm 
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I agree that all these laws passed since and including the Patriot act are awful, but they get us riled up over nothing, really. As long as we have free elections and term limits, I see no one using these things against the American people w/o severe backlash leading to their demise. If the people hate something enough, it will go away. The Vietnam War is a great example. They had people brainwashed that communism was a communicable disease, and the war still had no chance against the power of reason. If the people hate a rule and want it reversed at all costs, one candidate will back it, and get elected.


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Crosscheck
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Uh....yeah because when people are being forced to do things against their will by a power-hungry and corrupt government operating in a rigged political system the best recourse is to wait 4-12 years for elections and legislation to resolve the issue.

FFS are you serious?

The power grab must be stopped before it happens or there is NO recourse.

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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:37 pm 
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In a representative republic you can't "stop it before it happens". Impossible. Once you vote a person in, you pretty much have to wait either 2 or 4 years to vote them out. If you know of some means of controlling the president's actions that I'm unaware of, then please enlighten me. Anyhow, if a president designs, passes and implements a policy that will take time. Let's say 2 years. That leaves him all of 2 years to do any damage before voters vote him off the island and demand reform. I can't see any way a Hitler type regime can do that much damage in that short of a time. Also, if you have been paying attention to the revolutionary moves all over the world, you'd know this wouldn't be a smart time for any leader to implement any tyrannical ideas. Ask Khadaffy.

btw, who are these people who are being forced to do things against their will by the rigged political system? I always thought our elections were fair outside of FLA for Bush. People don't use their political power much, but if the government goes too far, they sure will. I think all politicians understand this, too. Keep the people polarized and focused on distractions is and will always be American politics, because the people united and informed would always get them what's good for them. I have very little fear of any of these tyrant laws ever becoming reality. A few kids were shot in protest at Kent state, and that was all it took to shut down the military industrial complex at the time.


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Crosscheck
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:51 pm 
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So your assertion is everyone who voted for Obama did so at least partially because they're in favor of the whole peacetime martial law thing.
And they're also in favor of allowing the executive branch to assassinate citizens.
And detain citizens indefinitely.

Makes sense.

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Crosscheck
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:56 pm 
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daz28 wrote:
In a representative republic you can't "stop it before it happens". Impossible. Once you vote a person in, you pretty much have to wait either 2 or 4 years to vote them out.

No, that's why there are 3 branches of government, to keep each other in check.
Quote:
Let's say 2 years. That leaves him all of 2 years to do any damage before voters vote him off the island and demand reform. I can't see any way a Hitler type regime can do that much damage in that short of a time.

Heh...guess how long it took Hitler to transform the Weimar Republic into the third Reich?
go ahead, guess.
1933-1935...two fucking years.
A republic to a single party dictatorship in two years.
Quote:
Also, if you have been paying attention to the revolutionary moves all over the world, you'd know this wouldn't be a smart time for any leader to implement any tyrannical ideas. Ask Khadaffy.

Huh?
Gaddafi didn't do anything special that led directly to that revolution, Libyans were spurred on by the success in Tunisia and Egypt, not some new tyranny from Gaddafi.
The new tyranny is in Syria and those people are getting killed by the thousands.
daz28 wrote:
btw, who are these people who are being forced to do things against their will by the rigged political system?

uh
Did you read the executive order this thread is about?
If the government decides what you do is important to national security, or if your company supplies something that's essential to the government for national security (or pretty much any other reason they want) they can lawfully compel you to provide those goods or services at their discretion.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:43 pm 
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What rights do we even have at this point. He can take away your business, farms, energy/natural resources, jail you for any reason for any length of time, enact the draft at his disgression, and force you to pay for a government run medical program. There is not much else up for grabs at this point. The Patriot Act was the start to this whole shitstorm. So, I blame Bush in that regard.


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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:47 pm 
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I think you're going off the deep end cross.

Show me where I asserted that Obama voters are for holocaust?

The 3 branches of governments checks and balanced are all still intact last time I checked, in fact, they are working too well.

Hitler removed opposition(by removing other parties and destroying the Constitution). He would not have been able to do the damage he did with an 8 year term limit and fair elections every 4 years.

I stand by my assertion that Syria(et al) is proof that bullying the population is a bad move any time in the near future..

"If the government decides what you do is important to national security, or if your company supplies something that's essential to the government for national security (or pretty much any other reason they want) they can lawfully compel you to provide those goods or services at their discretion." -As I said, making the law is one thing, using it is another. Police can commandeer my vehicle, but they aren't stupid enough to do it for a donut run.

My point was simple, and it seems you're trying to create an argument. These executive orders are not a good thing, but no president(including Obama) will use them, because it would be political suicide.

Where was all this vitriol from you when someone was actually using executive power to kill thousands of Americans and 100's of thousands of Iraqis wrongfully???

ksquier89 wrote:
What rights do we even have at this point. He can take away your business, farms, energy/natural resources, jail you for any reason for any length of time, enact the draft at his disgression, and force you to pay for a government run medical program. There is not much else up for grabs at this point. The Patriot Act was the start to this whole shitstorm. So, I blame Bush in that regard.

Like I said, our right to elect someone who will use their power accordingly is still intact, and that trumps anything that some yahoo who might consider using power irrationally can do. An Americans right to vote is a sleeping giant, and politicians know this. No one is dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds them. As long as my right to vote and term limits remain in effect, I will have no fear.


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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Goverment will not relinquish its power so long as we have the two sides coexisting in their efforts to tear apart the Constitution and our rights as citizens.


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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:43 pm 
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ksquier89 wrote:
Goverment will not relinquish its power so long as we have the two sides coexisting in their efforts to tear apart the Constitution and our rights as citizens.

Well, that's a great topic, but a different one altogether. I've never been able to decide on whether or not the 2 party system is a good/bad idea. I'm thinking more is better, I guess.


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Crosscheck
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:41 pm 
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I was pointing out the simple ridiculousness of your assertion.
To sum it up:
"If the people elect who they want, nothing bad can happen because future elections will fix any wrongdoing"

Of course no one who voted for Obama expected him to be the 3rd term of George Bush when it comes to civil rights. But that's what he's become.

And that's where your argument fails.
It relies on the assumption politicians actually do what they tell the voters.





and that's laughable.

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daz28
 Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:54 pm 
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I'd say my assertion was more like, "the will of the people will be heard", because they choose their leaders.

None of the doctrines have been applied yet, so I only see them as precautions, but I won't be lured into an argument I didn't ask for.

If voters want results, they can't keep voting for the guys who keeps failing them. You're trying to blame bad voting on the candidates here. You keep pulling the wrong lever, and then want to blame the other lever.

I doubt any other posters got this:
"If the people elect who they want, nothing bad can happen because future elections will fix any wrongdoing"

-mistaken with any principles of morality. Ask any African-American if he can agree with this principle.


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