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DieHardFan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:43 am 
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Versus the Leafs, during the 1st period, Sabres took 3 straight penalties. The 2nd one, on Myers, left them in a 3-on-5 situation. The 3rd penalty by Ott occurred after that while they were already down 2 men. The Myers penalty occurred with 5:15 left in the period. Therefore, the 2 man disadvantage should have expired with 3:15 to go (at the end of Myers' penalty) and gone back to a 5-on-4. However, the Sabres did not get their 4th man back on the ice until only 2:47 was left - almost 30 seconds elapsed while they had only 3 men on the ice instead of 4! Go back and watch it if you don't believe it. Yesterday vs Flyers, there was a part of the game where we only had 4 men on the ice instead of 5, which McGuire pointed out on TV.

How do you miss that?


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:55 am 
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Further proof the Leafs suck, they still didn't win

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:18 am 
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Yep, I think it was after a commercial break I noticed they finally had 4 skaters again.

that was horrible

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sabretoothpick
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:48 am 
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Just watched it again, you're right. Myers came out and skated to the bench but nobody took his place.

I think I know what went wrong. The rule says that when the first of the 3 penalties (Stafford) expires, that guy has to stay in the penalty box until a game break, in order to sustain the 5-3 situation (because the Ott penalty starts when Stafford's expires).
There wasn't a game break between Stafford's and Myers' penalty expiration, so Stafford (although his penalty was expired) was still in the box when Myers left the box.
That's probably why the Sabres bench thought they are still 5-3 (still 2 guys sitting in the penalty box).

This kind of mistakes really shouldn't happen with an experianced coaching staff.
The Leafs announcers had no clue what was going on, they said the Sabres should have gotten another penalty because Myers left early.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:14 am 
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sabretoothpick wrote:
Just watched it again, you're right. Myers came out and skated to the bench but nobody took his place.

I think I know what went wrong. The rule says that when the first of the 3 penalties (Stafford) expires, that guy has to stay in the penalty box until a game break, in order to sustain the 5-3 situation (because the Ott penalty starts when Stafford's expires).
There wasn't a game break between Stafford's and Myers' penalty expiration, so Stafford (although his penalty was expired) was still in the box when Myers left the box.
That's probably why the Sabres bench thought they are still 5-3 (still 2 guys sitting in the penalty box).

This kind of mistakes really shouldn't happen with an experianced coaching staff.
The Leafs announcers had no clue what was going on, they said the Sabres should have gotten another penalty because Myers left early.


The officials are the ones that are supposed to explain that timing to the coaches. IE, when it goes back to 5 on 4 in a delayed penalty situation, because you can't just look over at the box and know how many guys you're supposed to have on the ice. The official is supposed tell the coach when it's 5 on 4 because nobody comes out until a stoppage until the penalized team is at full strength, so the 4th players has to come from the bench, and thats the opposite of every other penalty situation.

It's FAR from an 'unbelievable gaffe'. It happens all the time.


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sabretoothpick
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:43 am 
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Squanto wrote:
sabretoothpick wrote:
Just watched it again, you're right. Myers came out and skated to the bench but nobody took his place.

I think I know what went wrong. The rule says that when the first of the 3 penalties (Stafford) expires, that guy has to stay in the penalty box until a game break, in order to sustain the 5-3 situation (because the Ott penalty starts when Stafford's expires).
There wasn't a game break between Stafford's and Myers' penalty expiration, so Stafford (although his penalty was expired) was still in the box when Myers left the box.
That's probably why the Sabres bench thought they are still 5-3 (still 2 guys sitting in the penalty box).

This kind of mistakes really shouldn't happen with an experianced coaching staff.
The Leafs announcers had no clue what was going on, they said the Sabres should have gotten another penalty because Myers left early.


The officials are the ones that are supposed to explain that timing to the coaches. IE, when it goes back to 5 on 4 in a delayed penalty situation, because you can't just look over at the box and know how many guys you're supposed to have on the ice.

It's FAR from an 'unbelievable gaffe'. It happens all the time.


It's not an unbelievable gaffe but it shouldn't happen. There are several assitant coaches behind the bench. One of them should be aware of the penalty situation.

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The official is supposed tell the coach when it's 5 on 4 because nobody comes out until a stoppage until the penalized team is at full strength, so the 4th players has to come from the bench, and thats the opposite of every other penalty situation.


The officals can't tell the coach how many players he's supposed to have without a game break. It's the coaches responsibilty, the rules are clear. The 2nd penalty guy is allowed to come out when his penalty is expired, since it's back to a normal 5-4. Myers should've just stayed out there.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:01 am 
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sabretoothpick wrote:
The officals can't tell the coach how many players he's supposed to have without a game break. It's the coaches responsibilty, the rules are clear. The 2nd penalty guy is allowed to come out when his penalty is expired, since it's back to a normal 5-4.Myers should've just stayed out there.


Bolded is incorrect.

Quote:
26.2 Penalty Expiration - When any team shall have three players serving penalties at the same time and because of the delayed penalty rule, a substitute for the third offender is on the ice, none of the three penalized players on the penalty bench may return to the ice until play has stopped. When play has been stopped, the player whose full penalty has expired may return to the ice.
During the play, the Penalty Timekeeper shall permit the return to the ice of the penalized players, in the order of expiry of their penalties, but only when the penalized team is entitled to have more than four players on the ice. Otherwise, these players must wait until the first stoppage of play after the expiration of their penalties in order to be released from the penalty bench.


14:24 BUF DREW STAFFORD : INTERFERENCE (JOFFREY LUPUL)
14:45 BUF TYLER MYERS : DELAYING GAME-PUCK OVER GLASS
16:01 BUF STEVE OTT : CLOSING HAND ON PUCK

Ott's penalty doesn't start until 16:24, when Stafford's has expired. Per rule 26.2, none of the 3 players in the box can leave the box until the next stoppage.

At 16:24 Stafford's penalty expires, and Ott's starts. It remains 5 on 3, but per 26.2 Stafford cannot leave the box. At 16:45, it becomes 5 on 4 with the expiration of Myers penalty. Again, per 26.2, he still can't leave the box since they were shorthanded, however the Sabres can jump someone off the bench to make it 5 on 4. This is something the officials have to communicate to the coaches.

The first stoppage after the expiration of Stafford and Myers' penalties is 17:13. Stafford and Myers come out on the stoppage, Ott stays until 18:24.

Yes, the Sabres coaches should have been on the officials about it, but if they don't know what time they can throw the 4th man over the boards, they're not going to do it and risk a too many men, especially at the end of that long of a penalty sequence.


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sabretoothpick
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Quote:
At 16:24 Stafford's penalty expires, and Ott's starts. It remains 5 on 3, but per 26.2 Stafford cannot leave the box. At 16:45, it becomes 5 on 4 with the expiration of Myers penalty. Again, per 26.2, he still can't leave the box since they were shorthanded, however the Sabres can jump someone off the bench to make it 5 on 4. This is something the officials have to communicate to the coaches.


I think the bolded isn't true, because of the following part. 5-4 means the penalized team is allowed to have more than 4 players on the ice, therefore a player is allowed to return. It should have been Stafford though (not like I said the 2nd penalty guy).

Quote:
During the play, the Penalty Timekeeper shall permit the return to the ice of the penalized players, in the order of expiry of their penalties, but only when the penalized team is entitled to have more than four players on the ice.


I haven't seen a part in the rules where the officials have to tell the penalized team that they are allowed to send another player out.
It doesn't even matter. It is not that hard to keep track of the timeline of penalties, like you showed in your post. You're not risking a penalty if you are aware of the situation.

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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:48 pm 
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i have a headache

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Displaced Fan wrote:
i have a headache


+1


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BagBoy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:28 pm 
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sabretoothpick wrote:
There wasn't a game break between Stafford's and Myers' penalty expiration, so Stafford (although his penalty was expired) was still in the box when Myers left the box.

In this type of situation, the rules dictate first in, first out, correct? That would mean Stafford should have left the box when the Myers penalty expired, and Myers should have kept his ass parked in the box until the next whistle (or expiration of Ott penalty).
Myers has made a few week's worth of stupid, costly, mental errors in just 2 games.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Again with the Myers. Did he have a fuck fest with your wives or something?

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:10 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Again with the Myers. Did he have a fuck fest with your wives or something?


Have you watched him carry the puck? It's been mind-numbingly awful.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Again with the Myers. Did he have a fuck fest with your wives or something?


Have you watched him carry the puck? It's been mind-numbingly awful.


Not... Really...

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adambuffalo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Question was asked to Kerry Frasier on tsn.ca, here's his response:

As you are aware, the delayed penalty rule states, "During the play, the Penalty Timekeeper shall permit the return to the ice of the penalized players, in the order of expiry of their penalties, but only when the penalized team is allowed to have more than four players on the ice."

Drew Stafford, as the first player penalized had the first penalty to expire and should have returned to the ice ahead of Tyler Myers. The reason that no additional penalty was assessed on this play is because the Sabres were entitled to relief once the penalty to Myers expired on the clock and it is the responsibility of the Penalty Timekeeper to send out the correct player (in this case Stafford).

Let's play this out and envision how this could have possibly happened.

- Stafford is penalized for interfering with Joffrey Lupul at 14:24 of the first period.

- Myers shoots the puck over the glass 21 seconds later to put the Sabres two men short.

- With both penalties clicking down on the clock Steve Ott receives another Sabres penalty at 16:01 for closing his hand on the puck. Ott's penalty becomes delayed until the first penalty on the clock to Stafford expires at 16:24.

- As Stafford's penalty clicks off the clock, Ott's two-minute minor immediately starts. Stafford must however remain in the box for another 21 seconds until Myers' penalty expires on the clock.

This is where the breakdown occurred. Myers and the penalty box attendant, who is responsible for opening the door, were intently watching Myers penalty click down second by second on the clock until it finally hit :00, the door is opened and out flies Myers. There was a failure to communicate that when Myers penalty expired on the clock it was Stafford that must jump through the open door and onto the ice!

I had this happen to me only once as a result of the gentleman in the penalty box failing to inform the players which one was entitled to return to the ice during play. From that moment on (and as the Captain of the Ship) I felt it incumbent upon me to remind the Penalty Timekeeper and advised the players in the penalty box the order in which each player was entitled to return to the ice should play continue after the expiration of penalties.

The Sabres were entitled to have four skaters on the ice but it was through the error of the penalty timekeeper that the wrong player was let out of the box. As such no additional penalty was deserved.

Taking this one step further, if through the fault of the penalty timekeeper a player is let out of the box with time remaining on his unexpired penalty that player would return to the penalty box at the first whistle to serve the balance of his unexpired penalty. The player would not incur any additional penalty for leaving the penalty bench prematurely unless he did so on his own and through no error of the penalty timekeeper.

It is most prudent for all referees to be proactive and communicate to the penalty timekeeper and to the players serving penalties the order in which they must return to the ice with play in progress!


http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=414212

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BagBoy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:47 pm 
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Thanks, Adam.

If this was the Penalty Timekeeper's fault, I guess maybe I was actually a bit hard on Tyler. But that had NOTHING to do with the wifey fuckfest. He didn't even cum in her. She promised.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Did anyone notice during the Flyers game Hartnell got a penalty and with one second left on the PP for the Sabres he was on the ice and they were once again 5-on-5?

Not like one second makes any difference, unless the penalty time on the TV was just a hair off from actual time.

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Sabres2Sabres
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Leafs announcers were convinced that we should have still been down 2 men then, and that Myers leaving the box should have gotten us another minor...


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:00 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Again with the Myers. Did he have a fuck fest with your wives or something?


Have you watched him carry the puck? It's been mind-numbingly awful.


Not... Really...


Not really it hasn't been awful, or not really you haven't been watching? You have some rosey-colored glasses if the former.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:24 pm 
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I haven't seen anything awful out of him.

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