No, MacKinnon WAS in first at a point but got an injury. That's why he fell to third.

Yes, there is something wrong with dictating what the Sabres should do with two decisions in basketball

7 6 games playing on the fourth line isn't ANYWHERE NEAR justifiable to sum up a career

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

I don't know why you feel a need to fight me on this. Mackinnon has NOT been #1 in months and Seth Jones HAS. I am just relaying that. 7 games might not be enough to tell everything, but that's the direct comparison I have. I watched the World Juniors and MacKinnon was nearly invisible while Jones was easily one of the top 3 players in the tournament. So that's what I'm going on, what I've seen, and what the scouts say. What are you basing your argument on? Do you wach the Halifax Mooseheads' games or something? I watch the Winterhawks and Jones' performance at the WJC was no fluke.

Also as to Canada's 4th line in WJC, Ty Rattie was on it, and he impressed. So just saying "he was on the 4th line so what do you expect?" doesn't hold much water with me.

Furthermore, MacKinnon played in the CHL before this year. Thus he came in as #1, probably because more scouts knew of him and had seen him play. Jones was coming from the US high school system, so he probably got a fraction of the attention. Now that he's been playing in the CHL, he is the consensus #1, and I take more from the year end ranking than the preseason rankings.

OK, B&Y, this isn't even about you anymore. I'm just obsessed now. Let it be known I have never advocated a team losing for draft picks and I highly doubt that professional athletes would ever consider throwing games for draft picks. That said, I REALLY want Buffalo to get Jones. Am I based? Yes. But I am also biased towards the Sabres. And I think most of you would agree I don't over-inflate their abilities because they are my favorite team.

But now that I think about the team's future needs, and the question of whether they need a good forward or good defenseman more, I have to argue more and more that it is defense that they need. Let me elaborate.

If you look at their cap chart on capgeek or you site of choice, you'll see that most of their biggest contracts (Vanek, Miller, Pomminville) are expiring after next season. Besides effing Leino, the only big long-term contracts that remain beyond next year are from the D, specifically Myers and Ehrhoff.

Now it may seem counter-intuitive to think they should draft defense given that situation, but I would argue that defense is exactly what they need. Those two contracts, based on what we've seen this year, could become very hard to move. Myers and Ehrhoff look bad, and they cost a lot for a long time. Who would want to take their contracts on? Buffalo might be stuck with them.

Thus I say a top-flight rookie on defense under a cheap contract might be exactly what Buffalo needs in the next 3-4 seasons. They'll have money to spend after next year, but that money could be used to re-sign at goal and forward, or on the free-agent market at goal and forward IF they can get a major talent at defense cheap to balance it out.

Sorry to take over this thread and make it the tank for Seth Jones thread. I'd stop if I could.

so stu let me ask u this; if we end up with the lets say 5th overall pick would u trade up to 1st overall? what type of trade would you put together? obviously the 5th overall would have to be involved who else would you throw into the mix to entice the worst overall team?

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"If you want to know what I've been doing lately, I've been driving around from Tim Horton's to Tim Horton's, rolling up the rim. Haven't won anything yet. Thanks." - Lindy Ruff

oh ya by the way i'm on the jones bandwagon as well.

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"If you want to know what I've been doing lately, I've been driving around from Tim Horton's to Tim Horton's, rolling up the rim. Haven't won anything yet. Thanks." - Lindy Ruff

Okay, if I can get anything out of that rant...

MacKinnon wasn't in the CHL. He was in Bantam AAA for 3 years, then Midget AAA. Then went to the QMJHL.
MacKinnon got hurt with an MCL injury in February. That's why Seth Jones rose in the rankings. Grigorenko was 1st too before HE had an injury that placed him in the rank we had him. It happens.
MacKinnon would develop faster than Seth Jones maybe, as D take more time to develop than forwards.
MacKinnon being in 3rd OBVIOUSLY means he's good. Being injured and being in 3rd is an accomplishment.
Seth Jones doing better than MacKinnon in 7 games means little. Using that logic, Makarov is the best goalie prospect out there (or at least one of the best).
Scouts compare him to Sidney Crosby. That's recognition for you.
He adds skill at center, something we have with only Hodgson and Ennis. Ennis isn't even a good center, he's a better winger.
Defense is easier to come by than a high scoring forward.

There. I'm not fighting, I'm merely presenting my side. If you want to fly off the handle again, whatevs.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

The MacKinnon being compared to Crosby makes my ginie tingle.

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Girgensons for captain. Team Keep Nick DesLauriers forever.

@TJLuckman550

i dunno about crosby good but he will be a regular on the allstar roster right away. and honestly if we get mackinon i'd get rid of ennis or just try him on wing again. with grigorenko hodgson and possibility of mackinon we'd have the best middle for years to come in the nhl add girgensons to that we are simply golden

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"If you want to know what I've been doing lately, I've been driving around from Tim Horton's to Tim Horton's, rolling up the rim. Haven't won anything yet. Thanks." - Lindy Ruff

+1 for using the word 'ginie'

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QMJHL is the CHL. It is one of three leagues that make up the CHL. The OHL & WHL being the other two. MacKinnon played on the Mooseheads last year, and because the CHL is considered the major development pool for the NHL, I have to think more scouts had their eyes on him than on Jones, who played juniors in the US (and not under one of the CHL leagues). That is why I consider that important in their rankings coming into and going out of this season.

As far as being compared to Crosby, that's what the hockey press does. Every young player usually gets compared to an NHL player these days, and they never say "This kid looks like the next Matt Ellis", it's always some star player that they play like. Tyler Myers was supposed to be the next Chara. How's that one working out?

I just disagree on the defense vs. offense part as far as the team's needs. But even if I did agree, if there's one player who is clearly better, I think it's the right drafting philosophy, in most cases, to take that player regardless of position. I never said MacKinnon was not good, so I don't know where that's coming from. Is Jones a clear cut above? Maybe not, but I'm not going to discount what I saw in the World Juniors as easily as you. That was an important tournament with the world watching where they played against the same teams, and Jones was dominant.

Hockey, like basketball, is a sport where every player has to play both offense and defense (goalies excepted). To me, that makes position less important to drafting than football, where position probably should be a major factor. In hockey, players can make a major impact from every position.

I'm not sure about making major sacrifices to trade up. As much as I'd love to see Jones comes to Buffalo, what I've read is that there's not a huge separation in skill and expectations between Jones and the rest of the top. MacKinnon and Drouin are supposed to be right there with him, and then there's a Finnish player and a Russian player ranked right below them who are supposed to be elite talents too. Not sure who could be thrown in to entice a deal besides Girgensons or Grigorenko. I wouldn't be too upset if they traded one of them, but I know the organization expects a lot of them.

1. My bad, I meant to say he was in the least prominent part of the CHL. WHL and the OHL are the more famous of the two.
2. MacKinnon played on a Canadian team that didn't even win bronze. So that means most of the team blew. But we know that most of the team doesn't actually blow. The Juniors isn't a good indication of who to take first, league play is.
3. Jones isn't clearly better than MacKinnon. Which is why before his injury MacKinnon kept up with Jones.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

I'm not trying to say Jones is the Crosby/Stamkos/Tavares-level prospect of this draft. There probably isn't one. Jones isn't clearly the best player on the Hawks. He's just a very good part of a very good team. But look at the international teams he played on. He's won three golds in international play, and he did it for the US (not often considered up there with Canada, Russia, Sweden, etc.), and he's only 18. If the Hawks win the WHL and/or the Memorial Cup, I might just start to think his greatest skill is flat-out winning.

And I'm not taking that away from him, I'm simply saying MacKinnon has his strengths as well and isn't a mile behind Jones, so he is capable of being #1 if the team deems his position to be more necessary, which is how I feel.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

Goals for: 70, which is more than three teams in the East currently in playoff position

Goals against: 84, which is more than ALL western conference teams, and less than only Florida and the Islanders in the east.

Or maybe a better way to put it is that they are 14th in goals for, 28th in goals against.

I'd like the team to start shoring up their defense first and foremost.

You can thank the 1st line and Ennis for those goals, as the 4th leading scorer only has three. Our D has gotten better, not to make excuses for them, but the forwards do a pretty crappy job with their defensive roles (Hodsgon, for example).

Having more scoring is harder to come by, as well.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

Well, I think the hockey world should hope that Portland wins the WHL and Halifax wins the Q, cause then we can see Jones play against MacKinnon and Drouin on the biggest junior stage of all. Until then, comparing their stats at different positions in different leagues is going to be a challenge at best.

Basketball? Only in college do you see defense played in basketball.

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