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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:25 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
BagBoy wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
he was inexplicably fired by Toronto for no good reason.

When you fail to get anywhere near the playoffs in your first 4 years, there’s nothing inexplicable about it. The Kessel debacle alone should have clued in the Leafs that Burke is a loser. Then there’s the Jeff Finger signing, and the complete mis-handling of the Ron Wilson situation. I have absolutely no idea what you see in this guy.


Considering the team he built with the coach he hired is now on the verge of making the playoffs, I'm thinking Toronto gave up a little too soon on him.

To go from where the Leafs were at to where they are right now, I have absolutely no idea what you don't see in him.

The Leafs would be in tough shape without the sudden surge of offense from Kadri. Which you could credit to Burke, but considering he didn't look very impressive in past years statistically it's a bit of a surprise to me.


Fact of the matter is that move is turning out to be a hit. Some players need time. Team building takes time. It takes hits, which come with misses. Burke's hits are finally showing, and he's getting none of the credit.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:28 pm 
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He has made some pretty bone headed moves as well. Connolly was obviously a no no, no matter how much they needed a center. Komisarek was a terrible move. He's done some done shit, I don't see him as an *elite* GM

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:37 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
He has made some pretty bone headed moves as well. Connolly was obviously a no no, no matter how much they needed a center. Komisarek was a terrible move. He's done some done shit, I don't see him as an *elite* GM


No, but he's really freaking good and I wouldn't say no to him. The guy has a freaking Stanley Cup. He traded for Pronger and then turned that into a large fortune of prospects and draft picks. He has good trades. He has bad trades. He has good signings, he has bad signings. What GM doesn't?

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BagBoy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:36 pm 
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He won a cup with a team he inherited, not a team he built. The driving force behind the Pronger trade was not Burke, it was Pronger's wife. And saying that he must be good, because Toronto is so improved doesn't hold water. With all the picks and cash at his disposal, they should be much better than they are now, and they should have gotten better a lot faster, also.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:42 pm 
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BagBoy wrote:
He won a cup with a team he inherited, not a team he built. The driving force behind the Pronger trade was not Burke, it was Pronger's wife. And saying that he must be good, because Toronto is so improved doesn't hold water. With all the picks and cash at his disposal, they should be much better than they are now, and they should have gotten better a lot faster, also.


Fair enough. He still can claim some of Vancouver's roster as some of what he built today. Kesler, Bieksa, and the Sedins were all his picks, and the hell he went through to get both Sedins is pretty impressive.

We're going to agree to disagree on this, though. Even if it was Pronger's wife, he still swung the trade, and swung the return he got from the Flyers.

Another thing. If there's anything we've learned, it's that having money isn't everything. You have to build your team through the draft. He did that in Vancouver, and his picks are now getting it done in Toronto. Joffrey Lupul was apparently a great trade, and Kessel has come into his own.

Edit: Also... so his team took a little longer to come into their own, but we're not going to give him the credit for it working out? I didn't know every GM had a set timer on them as to when their team was supposed to succeed.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
He has made some pretty bone headed moves as well. Connolly was obviously a no no, no matter how much they needed a center. Komisarek was a terrible move. He's done some done shit, I don't see him as an *elite* GM


No, but he's really freaking good and I wouldn't say no to him. The guy has a freaking Stanley Cup. He traded for Pronger and then turned that into a large fortune of prospects and draft picks. He has good trades. He has bad trades. He has good signings, he has bad signings. What GM doesn't?

I wouldn't go as far as to replace Darcy with him. Regier makes trades that make other GM's seem mentally ill.

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lamaisonbleu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
So we're really saying no to the guy
In Vancouver, swung a trade to get the 2nd and 3rd overall picks to grab both Sedin twins, also drafted Ryan Kesler and Kevin Bieksa. He also brought in Alex Mogilny, who was still pretty decent at that point of his career. He took over Vancouver and had them in the playoffs within two years of his hiring. They won the division in 2003-04. For some reason, the Canucks decided not to renew his contract.

In Anaheim, he drafts Bobby Ryan and swings the trade for Chris Pronger that gives them the Stanley Cup, then proceeds to trade an aging Pronger to the Flyers for Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, 2 first-round picks and a conditional third round pick. After setting the Ducks up nicely for the future after that, he went off to Toronto.

People put Burke's career down because of the Kessel trade, but he also brought Kessel Joffrey Lupul, who's turned into quite the player. He drafted Nazem Kadri, who looks like he's going to be a star. He somehow successfully traded away Tomas Kaberle after years of him being on the trade market forever, which he somehow got a first round draft pick for. He somehow got the Ducks to take back Francois Beauchemin. Of course, he blundered by signing Mike Komisarek and Tim Connolly, but the Toronto organization literally had nothing before Burke got there. The Marlies were a train-wreck, as were the Leafs. The Marlies are now a perennial AHL Calder Cup contender, and the Leafs are on the verge of their first playoff berth because of the team Burke built.

Seriously. How are people turning their nose up to this guy?

ok smart guys--fight fanatic's well reasoned discourse. I rest my case your honor.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:47 am 
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BagBoy wrote:
With all the picks and cash at his disposal, they should be much better than they are now, and they should have gotten better a lot faster, also.


Sounds like at least one other team I know...

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:40 am 
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NYIntensity wrote:
BagBoy wrote:
With all the picks and cash at his disposal, they should be much better than they are now, and they should have gotten better a lot faster, also.


Sounds like at least one other team I know...


To be fair, Burke used more cash than he did picks. If anything, that was his downfall. Still, with the minimal amount of picks he had, the Leafs are producing now.

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