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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
The CHANCES of drafting a good player at 8 is not as good as drafting one in the Top 5, but it can be done.

Yeah, but drafting someone at eighth isn't too far off from top five.

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:07 pm 
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If the Sabres are serious about winning a Stanley Cup, then they don't just need good players. They have good players, I admit that. What the Sabres don't have is a GREAT player or two. A player like Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, Ovechkin, etc. A player that will make any other a good player. Somone who will make an immediate impact on every game. Vanek doesn't have that. Vanek still is, and will always be, inconsistent. He isn't at the level of the players I mentioned.

I love your optimism, I do, but if you don't accept the fact that this team is basically doomed for some time you'll get burned out eventually. That is unless Darcy actually pulls off a miricle and gets a top 1/2 overall in this or next seasons draft. He sure isn't going to talk any top UFA's to come to Buffalo.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


Last edited by sabresindc on Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm 
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You don't get what I'm saying. Getting eighth means you have a decent chance to have an impact player. Top 5 means you have a real good chance. Especially in this year's draft, since there's really good players available at eighth, like Sean Monahan, who played for the Ottawa 67s and they sucked out loud, yet he still had a lot of points.

Point being, we can get a good goalie and a good player from this draft if we keep both, and if we trade up that's fine too. Point is, though, if Darcy decides to keep both, I know people will shit on him for that. Which isn't cool.

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:41 pm 
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I get what your saying, I just don't believe it as you do. I don't doubt we'll get a good player that will probably start immediately. What I doubt is that he will make such an immediate impact on this team. We'll see what happens next month. Just don't get your hopes up that this player, whoever he is, will be our Crosby/Ovechkin becuase he isn't.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:22 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
I get what your saying, I just don't believe it as you do. I don't doubt we'll get a good player that will probably start immediately. What I doubt is that he will make such an immediate impact on this team. We'll see what happens next month. Just don't get your hopes up that this player, whoever he is, will be our Crosby/Ovechkin becuase he isn't.

I'm not expecting a Crosby or Ovechkin. But I'm sure we could get a decent player who may perform a 2nd line role right away, at eighth.

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:58 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
I get what your saying, I just don't believe it as you do. I don't doubt we'll get a good player that will probably start immediately. What I doubt is that he will make such an immediate impact on this team. We'll see what happens next month. Just don't get your hopes up that this player, whoever he is, will be our Crosby/Ovechkin becuase he isn't.

And there are only two teams that have a Crosby and Ovechkin also.

LA didn't have one player even comparable to those guys at all. The Bruins didn't either, The Blackhawks didn't when they won their cup, you could argue it know that Kane could be up there, but he still isn't that great of a player either to be a Crosby/OV type player, they all had multiple players that are great.

You need three or four players on both sides of the puck that really are up there to win the cup.

We have maybe 3 total of the 6 or 7 needed to win. Basically we have Vanek, Ehrhoff, Myers (Hopefully, still see tremendous potential and flashes of dominance from him still), and Miller. We need about two or three more offensive guys and maybe one more very solid D to be a contender. Hodgson may be that second guy for us in the future, and I see that happening. Then after those guys, you need solid depth guys to hold everything in place.

And in this draft, we could get another one of those guys at 8th. I see Grigorenko and Girgensons being huge pieces of a championship puzzle too and then Armia also, especially when Vanek leaves for a chance to win.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Not to mention, if we keep Minnesota's pick (hopefully they lose) we can maybe nab Fucale. Which would open up the trading of the Miller, since we'd have Hackett, Enroth, Fucale, and Leggio to contend for goalie spots.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:48 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Not to mention, if we keep Minnesota's pick (hopefully they lose) we can maybe nab Fucale. Which would open up the trading of the Miller, since we'd have Hackett, Enroth, Fucale, and Leggio to contend for goalie spots.


Leggio is an unrestricted free agent, for what that's worth. Unless Miller's traded, I doubt Leggio stays.

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Skyline, your correct they didn't have Crosby/Ovie but they both had 2nd overalls (LA-Doughty, BOS-Seguin) on their rosters. Having top 4 overall on your roster is the biggest piece that this team is missing.

Your also factoring Miller/Vanek into your equation. Where are we IF (or when in my case) they leave? Those are huge gaps because we don't know how or when Armia will be an impact player. We all know Enroth will not be a great goalie let alone elite.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Dc, that is where I am with you. If we are going to go full bore into rebuild Miller and maybe Vanek need to go for draft picks. If we do trade both we can net more first round draft picks IMO. Then we package 2 firsts for a top 3 or 4 and draft two more first rounders. Then we ride out Enroth or insert goalie here and eat a shitty season for another top 4 pick. Then we are talking 2-4 immediate impact type players coupled with a decent crop of youngsters now. So I say eat shit for another year, gut this bitch, and push this into 5th gear.


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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:03 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
Skyline, your correct they didn't have Crosby/Ovie but they both had 2nd overalls (LA-Doughty, BOS-Seguin) on their rosters. Having top 4 overall on your roster is the biggest piece that this team is missing.

Your also factoring Miller/Vanek into your equation. Where are we IF (or when in my case) they leave? Those are huge gaps because we don't know how or when Armia will be an impact player. We all know Enroth will not be a great goalie let alone elite.

You can't use that argument for Boston, they would have won the Cup had Seguin been playing or not. He had 1 assist in those final 6 games against Vancouver. He didn't even play in Game 7 of that series, it shows you how important he was to their team. You take Seguin out of the finals and they still win the cup. The game he had an assist in, they won it 4-0. Stop using that argument for Boston about having a number 2 draft pick on the team, he was in no way, shape, or form the reason they got anywhere close to the Stanley Cup that year. He was nowhere near an impact player at all.

His first two games against Tampa he had 6 points. A total of 7 points in 3 total games out of 13 played.

Boston Would have done just fine had Seguin played Juniors that year.

Yes it helps drafting top players in a draft. No doubt Doughty was important to LA in winning the Cup, but Brown wasn't a top 5 pick and he was so important for them but he came out of that deep 03 draft,, Kopitar was 11th overall, Quick was a third round selection. La Still won it that year by the trades they completed to get Richards and Carter. Had they not gotten them, as they didn't suck enough to stockpile enough of those top 5 picks, I doubt they would have won.

I did factored Miller and Vanek in for at least next year. I factored Miller in only for longer than just next year.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:44 am 
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Ok, I had this whole thing about what you said about Boston..... Instead, I'll just say you're right. He had little factor statistically.

I honestly believe that this team most important player, the one who will impact this team the most has yet to step on the ice as an NHL player. The thing the Sabres need to do is get to a point in the draft (this one, next season, or the season after) to be in the top three overall positions. There is no if, ands, or buts this team NEEDS to draft in the top three. There is no top player that will change a NTC to come to this team unless you have a top prospect that proves himself. Hodgson and Grigs are pieces of the puzzle that will compliment this unknown player. They will help draw that top veteran player here only if you have a top prospect on your line up.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:43 pm 
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We need to look to the future and it may be time to part ways with key pieces for draft picks. We have a decent crop of young guys who are complimentary pieces and can contribute in spurts. We need dominant forces to go along with these guys. Biting our lip and gettig rid of Miller and Vanek is a real possibility. We get draft picks and package for a top 3 this year and we have a potential key player. Next year would be rough and we would probably end up with another top 5 pick. With that comes another quality player. I know the draft can be a crap shoot but a top 5 is near certainty. It's time for a reboot. If we part with these guys it makes the rebuild move along at an accelerated pace. I don't want to wallow in empathy for too long lol. If Darcy has any real set of brass cajones he will make a big deal for what he has stated is the innevitable.


Last edited by ksquier89 on Thu May 09, 2013 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:52 pm 
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They are great players and I love them for everything they have done and because of that I don't want them to have to deal with this. If they want to stay for this god bless them. Honestly I hope they leave, get on a good team, and win a stanley cup. I liken this debacle to ripping a band aid off. We know we have to do it and we are waiting way to long ripping this thing off. Pull hard and fast. Let's not beat around the bush here. Talking about ways to make this feel better is not going to make it hurt any less. We are in a grieving process and I realize this but let's get out of denial quick and do what we know should be done.


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Man, Don't get your hopes up for a move to top 3.... None of the top three teams will be giving up their position for ANY players this team has. They'd be damn lucky to move to fourth. I'm glad you have faith in Darcy that he can pull this off, I don't. That is what makes this so hard for me to swallow. I just see in 5 years we're in the same boat. I am praying that Darcy proves all of his critics wrong.... I really do

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:08 pm 
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You mean to tell me that Vanek and a first would not fetch a top 3?


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:52 pm 
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That would definitely give Tampa a boner. Miller would fancy Florida. Either of those players + a pick would DEFINITELY constitute a top pick.

But, I would only do that for Miller. If we're drafting a forward, what's the point in parting with one?

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:04 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
That would definitely give Tampa a boner. Miller would fancy Florida. Either of those players + a pick would DEFINITELY constitute a top pick.

But, I would only do that for Miller. If we're drafting a forward, what's the point in parting with one?

Agreed.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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ksquier89
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:57 pm 
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Pull the trigger


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:04 am 
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ksquier89 wrote:
You mean to tell me that Vanek and a first would not fetch a top 3?

Not in this draft, no way in hell. The top three prospects are considered NHL ready and are expected to be franchise type players. Tampa will pick up either MacKinnon or Drouin.... Either would be lethal with Stamko.... This is definitely bad for the Sabres.

IF any of the top three decide to trade it would cost the Sabres dearly. Something like, Vanek, Hodgson, first and second.... possibly a defensive prospect also.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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