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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:17 pm 
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I said top 6 minutes, not top line.

So he came in like he was inferior to the other guys or had something to prove?

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:30 pm 
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If our coach/GM handle Grigorenko THE RIGHT WAY this time, and play him with Ennis, then he'll probably be a lock.
Armia, most likely not. Send him to the AHL, unless he *wows*.
Whoever we draft, treat them like Armia. Play them if they do well. But I agree with Sky. We have defensive prospects and we can further them with our later picks (2nd round). For the 1st, draft forwards, unless Fucale's there if we have Minnesota's pick, still.

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
I said top 6 minutes, not top line.

So he came in like he was inferior to the other guys or had something to prove?

No, I guess he came in with a major attitude... Peters and Sylvester talked to Ott about them moving Grigs locker and he made it sound like it was to have a Vet presence to "guide" him. Ah top 6 minutes, my bad

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:52 pm 
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I never heard he came in with a major attitude. News from a basement dweller in Clarence?

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:10 am 
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He didn't come in with an attitude, but I've heard that not many players are his biggest fan.

Edit: Speaking of Grigorenko, completely non-existent in Rochester. Guess I shouldn't be shocked.

Zemgus Girgensons, meanwhile, had an excellent series against the Marlies. 3 goals in 3 games. Scored one falling to his knees. He's going to be good, I think.

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:14 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
I never heard he came in with a major attitude. News from a basement dweller in Clarence?

I was wrong, it was Paul Hamilton talking to Howard Simon.

http://audio.wgr550.com/a/74195071/4-30-paul-hamilton-on-press-conference-and-what-he-expects-to-happen-this-offsea.htm?pageid=401026

They start talking about it at 12:10

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:47 am 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
He didn't come in with an attitude, but I've heard that not many players are his biggest fan.

Edit: Speaking of Grigorenko, completely non-existent in Rochester. Guess I shouldn't be shocked.

Zemgus Girgensons, meanwhile, had an excellent series against the Marlies. 3 goals in 3 games. Scored one falling to his knees. He's going to be good, I think.

Playing only two games on a team hes never played on before with brand new teammates. It's really not a surprise. Both will be good players for us.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:39 am 
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A lot of talk about how well Girgensons did in the playoffs. How was he during the regular season? I've heard average but just getting use to playing.... Hopefully he'll continue to develop into a true 2nd line center. Not the kind that the Sabres say are 2nd line but really are 3rd or 4th line centers on most teams


Also read that Grigarenko commented on how physical the AHL was. Brother has a huge surprise coming when he goes up agaisnt the Boston or Philly next season. I definitely have some concerns about this kid.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:57 am 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
He didn't come in with an attitude, but I've heard that not many players are his biggest fan.

Edit: Speaking of Grigorenko, completely non-existent in Rochester. Guess I shouldn't be shocked.

Zemgus Girgensons, meanwhile, had an excellent series against the Marlies. 3 goals in 3 games. Scored one falling to his knees. He's going to be good, I think.

Playing only two games on a team hes never played on before with brand new teammates. It's really not a surprise. Both will be good players for us.


It's not just that. He had plenty of time to get used to the NHL team before the Sabres pulled the plug. He doesn't seem to want to go into dirty areas, and he seems to get noticeably upset when hit or something. I constantly see him gliding, looking for the easy play. Maybe that works in the QMJHL when you have his talent, but that won't cut it in the NHL, nor the AHL level.

I'm not denying his talent, but I'm definitely denying his work ethic. Girgensons definitely has it. His numbers were average in Rochester this year (17 pts. in 61 games), but as an 18-year-old playing amongst men, that's to be expected I think. He really turned it up in the playoffs. He has a sort of Steve Ott mentality where he'll go after the guy and hit him. It's awesome to watch the kid play. He works extremely hard.

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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:11 pm 
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One has extreme talent, the other doesn't have all that much talent.
One hits and is gritty, the other isn't much of a hitter/grit player.

But one is 100x easier to change than the other.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:28 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
One has extreme talent, the other doesn't have all that much talent.
One hits and is gritty, the other isn't much of a hitter/grit player.

But one is 100x easier to change than the other.


I wouldn't mark off Girgensons as "not all that much talent." Dude knows how to carry a puck. Concussion and 4th-line minutes didn't really help him. When he was given the minutes, he turned it on.

Completely agree with you, though. A young player can be taught to work hard.

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Girgensons for captain. Team Keep Nick DesLauriers forever.

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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
One has extreme talent, the other doesn't have all that much talent.
One hits and is gritty, the other isn't much of a hitter/grit player.

But one is 100x easier to change than the other.


I wouldn't mark off Girgensons as "not all that much talent." Dude knows how to carry a puck. Concussion and 4th-line minutes didn't really help him. When he was given the minutes, he turned it on.

Completely agree with you, though. A young player can be taught to work hard.

Well yeah, Girgensons obviously has talent. He's making the NHL most likely. But not as much as Grigo.

Hopefully, this draft brings us an impact player, one we don't play six minutes a night. Hard to make judgement on six minutes a night and getting scratched every other game. Especially when you're putting an 18 year old through that.

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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Well, hopefully with Ruff gone, our younger guys will be better and not killed. I think Myers will rebound as he doesn't have Ruff as his coach anymore.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:27 pm 
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I'm still not convinced with Grigs. Epsecially with the comments about how physical the AHL was..... He definitely isn't use to being hit and that's why he was acting that way when playing with the big boys. They need to put him against the Lucic line the first game against Boston next season. Wake his happy little ass right up. See if he has the balls to play this game

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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Skyline_BNR34
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:50 am 
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I think his 20 so games in the NHL he'll be ready to go next year. He knows what it will take to succeed in the NHL and will work hard over the offseason to improve and I think we'll be quite surprised with him next year.

It's too bad he's still too young to play in the AHL because that would do him the greatest benefit right now. Playing in the Q will all but hurt him. No point in being the best playing in the league and not getting any better.

But seeing how he will be on our team next year, I hope he puts on some size and really gets to play next year in the top 6 role. He's a top 6 guy and needs those minutes.

But we need to talk draft now. Are we gonna trade up to grab a top 3 spot? The order is Colorado, Florida, and Tampa. What would we give to get in the top three to get a shot at MacKinnon or Drouin?

Florida and Tampa are set with goaltending I think. Would we trade our 8th with Vanek to try and get that pick, and what would or could we ask for from those team?

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Are we gonna trade up to grab a top 3 spot? The order is Colorado, Florida, and Tampa. What would we give to get in the top three to get a shot at MacKinnon or Drouin?

Top four will be a stretch, top three will be all but impossible.

Food for thought by TBN. It's long winded but it breaks down what I've been saying nicely.... :D Top four pick overall, preferably top 1st/2nd overall, or it will be a long long long time.

Quote:
News analysis shows moving up in draft would be prudent for Sabres
The Sabres’ goals are clearly outlined. Buffalo wants to move up in the NHL entry draft, stockpile early picks and top players, and make the fans’ suffering end as soon as possible.

One is uncommon but wise, another may not be worth it and the other doesn’t necessarily have to happen in the first place.

The Sabres have determined that building through the draft is the ideal way to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo. The draft will be held eight weeks from today, giving Darcy Regier time to convince fellow general managers to part with picks or package his for prospects.

The Sabres are set to draft eighth overall, and Regier wants to get closer to No. 1. That’s a prudent move, research shows.

The Buffalo News analyzed the top 30 draft picks taken during a 20-year span, ranging from the 1992 entry draft to 2011. To measure the general value of players taken from No. 1 overall to No. 30, we found the median number of games played and career points produced for every draft spot.

The research shows that teams selecting as late as 27th overall can expect to find a player who will have a lengthy career. However, only the first five teams in the draft can be confident they’ll find a prospect who will play awhile and be a point-producer.

[i]Players selected first and second are usually game-changers. The median players in the study appeared in at least 536 games and recorded up to 387 points.
[/i]

The normal third overall selection puts up 250 points in 599 games. The fourth pick dips to 417 games and 139 points, but that’s primarily because teams missed on taking the fifth pick, who recorded 232 points in 504 games.

From there, it’s a substantial drop-off. The median sixth pick played 309 games and had 137 points. The player picked eighth, who would go to the Sabres, has a median total of 77 points in 225 games.

There are still serviceable players to be had during the round, but they typically don’t fit into the impact category. The 21st overall pick, for example, was good enough to appear in 359 games, but he put up just 58 points. The 27th pick recorded 63 points in 242 games. The median 30th selection had a mere 34 games and six points.

It’s wise, therefore, to get as close to the top as possible. It’s also why teams are wise enough to keep their picks.

In the 25 drafts since 1988, a top-seven pick has been dealt in 10 of them. There have been a total of 15 transactions as the 1999 draft turned into a swap meet and a pair of deals went down in both 2002 and 2008.

The teams holding the eighth pick have moved up only twice in 25 years. In both trades, the club had to give up a second-round pick to jump just a few spots.

It was definitely worth it:

• In 1992, the New York Islanders dealt the No. 8 pick and a second-round selection to Toronto for the No. 5 pick. The Isles selected Darius Kasparaitis after moving up. The Maple Leafs took Brandon Convery at No. 8 and wound up trading the second-round pick as part of a deal for the 23rd overall selection, Grant Marshall.

Kasparaitis had a 14-year career. Convery appeared in just 72 games.

• In 2004, Carolina sent the No. 8 pick and a second-round selection to Columbus for the No. 4 pick. The Hurricanes picked Andrew Ladd after moving up. Columbus took Alexandre Picard at No. 8 and used the second-round pick on Kyle Wharton.

Ladd is the captain in Winnipeg after winning Cups in Carolina and Chicago. Picard is in Switzerland after skating in 67 NHL games, while Wharton never appeared in the big leagues.

The Sabres feel they are in prime position to rebuild because of a burgeoning number of picks in the first and second rounds. Including the 2012 draft, they are set to have 14 selections in the top 60 in a four-year span, including six first-rounders.

Just as there are differing levels of results for players taken in the opening round, there are differing results for teams that bank on first-round players.

The Sabres had nine first-round selections on their roster this season. They missed the playoffs. Boston had four first-round selections on the team in 2011 and won the Cup. Los Angeles won last season with eight players picked in the first round. Columbus also had eight and finished last.

In fact, the number of first-round players on champions and last-place finishers is similar nearly every season dating to 1999. It ultimately comes down to picking the right players.

Selecting at the top helps. During that 13-year stretch, which starts with the Sabres’ loss to Dallas in the finals, the importance of impact players is evident. Ten of the 13 winners boasted a player selected first or second overall. Two other champions had a No. 3 pick. The only exception was Colorado, which didn’t have anyone drafted higher than sixth when it won in 2001.

The only ways to get a top-two pick are to trade for it or be a bad team. The Sabres have hinted at both, specifically the latter. They’ve prepared their fan base for suffering.

Not every Cup champion has suffered before winning, however. The 1999 Stars made the playoffs in eight of their previous 10 seasons before beating Buffalo. New Jersey won three Cups while making the playoffs in 13 of 14 years. Detroit has made the postseason 22 straight times. Boston had a stretch of three in, two out and four in before winning in 2011.

There also are, of course, long droughts before champagne flows.

The Kings missed the playoffs six times before assembling a squad that won the Cup in its third straight postseason. Chicago was left out for nine of 10 years, then won after the making the playoffs two years in a row. Tampa Bay missed the playoffs a half-dozen times before earning the Cup in its second straight postseason in 2004.

Pittsburgh suffered, but with an asterisk. The Penguins made the playoffs for 12 of 13 years and won two Cups. They then missed for four straight. With seven postseasons in a row, they’ve clearly rebounded.

The Sabres have a plan for rebounding. The outline is clear. The result it will produce is not.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Uh. I get it. Top players usually pan out more. That's why they're THE TOP PLAYERS.

But it's not so much of a difference that we can't draft eighth.

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sabresindc
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:46 pm 
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That article has stats that back my statement that to have the BEST chance of winning the Stanley Cup you NEED top 1-4 overall... Not 8th overall. Not saying that the Sabres won't get a great player that is serviceable for a long time, just not one that WILL CHANGE the Sabres into a Stanely Cup winner. He'll be just another piece of this jigsaw puzzle.

That's also assuming Darcy choices the right piece at 8th.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:03 pm 
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No, to have the best chance at winning the cup you need good players.

Which, can be achieved by drafting eighth.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
 Post subject: Re: 2013 draft talk
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:18 pm 
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The CHANCES of drafting a good player at 8 is not as good as drafting one in the Top 5, but it can be done.

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