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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:10 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
We agree? No way! ;) :P


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:47 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
27 of Ovechkin's points came on the powerplay. It makes no difference, in fact our PP is so bad it makes him even more valuable.

But btw, he didn't mostly play with Vanek at the second half of the year, if he did his and Vanek's +/- would be sort of similar, but they're not.

Face it dude, Ennis is the second best player on this team, get him a legit linemate and he does well.

The problem with Ennis and Hodgson is that they completely blow when it comes to defense. Hell, they are a liability when they are in their own zone. They WON'T BE the best players on the ice until they realize that they need to play defense well and not cough up the puck as much as they do. I guess I can chalk that up to youth but I know of players around their age that are better two-way players

But are they as good offensively as these two?

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:02 am 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
27 of Ovechkin's points came on the powerplay. It makes no difference, in fact our PP is so bad it makes him even more valuable.

But btw, he didn't mostly play with Vanek at the second half of the year, if he did his and Vanek's +/- would be sort of similar, but they're not.

Face it dude, Ennis is the second best player on this team, get him a legit linemate and he does well.

The problem with Ennis and Hodgson is that they completely blow when it comes to defense. Hell, they are a liability when they are in their own zone. They WON'T BE the best players on the ice until they realize that they need to play defense well and not cough up the puck as much as they do. I guess I can chalk that up to youth but I know of players around their age that are better two-way players

But are they as good offensively as these two?


Ryan O'Reilly comes to mind.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Not sold on Reilly.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:54 pm 
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O'Reilly also has an extra two years in the league and has 127 points in 265, Hodgson has 77 points in 139 games. Hodgson is actua;;y putting up points at a higher clip than O'Reilly.

So who else you think then?

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Not to mention, Reilly only had one viable year as an offensive threat, his 52 point year was it? Not to say Hodgson and Ennis are solidified point producers, but they're more so than Reilly.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Not to mention, Reilly only had one viable year as an offensive threat, his 52 point year was it? Not to say Hodgson and Ennis are solidified point producers, but they're more so than Reilly.


He had 20 in 29 this year. Not bad.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Not to mention, Reilly only had one viable year as an offensive threat, his 52 point year was it? Not to say Hodgson and Ennis are solidified point producers, but they're more so than Reilly.


He had 20 in 29 this year. Not bad.

A little over half of a half a year, lol. It's not a very good indication for me.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:18 pm 
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O'Reilly probably is better offensively, but at this point he's not, purely looking at the stats of course. But that extra two years in the NHL has a huge factor on this also. Both will be good offensive players for their teams.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:02 am 
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So you're ok if they're giving up points because of bad defensive decisions. To be a great player you have to be two way. They can score when they have the puck but they need to be able to hold on to the puck first.

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Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:10 pm 
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I'm okay with it because neither player are truly "awful" defensively. Ennis is average and Hodgson just needs to work on it a little more.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:37 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
So you're ok if they're giving up points because of bad defensive decisions. To be a great player you have to be two way. They can score when they have the puck but they need to be able to hold on to the puck first.

I went back and watched some of these Hodgson decisions before on some recaps, and his decisions weren't always his fault to make. No one was in the right spot, or he was doing the job a center needed to be and not chasing the puck. The only real fault I did find about him was in front of the net he wouldn't tie up the man enough. But I don't blame him for throwing a puck up the boards to the wing that's suppose to be there, but the D-man pinching in and winning the battle his fault at all, That is on his winger.

Same with Myers, some of the things people blamed him were not his fault either, but a variety of bad decisions made by the other 4 players on the ice with him too.

Early in the year, I blame Leopold and Myers for how bad our defensive struggles were, neither could get it out of the zone at all.

And some of these great players in this league are not two-way players at all. Their defense is more emphasized because of how often they actually score which is a false inflation of their defense.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
So you're ok if they're giving up points because of bad defensive decisions. To be a great player you have to be two way. They can score when they have the puck but they need to be able to hold on to the puck first.

I went back and watched some of these Hodgson decisions before on some recaps, and his decisions weren't always his fault to make. No one was in the right spot, or he was doing the job a center needed to be and not chasing the puck. The only real fault I did find about him was in front of the net he wouldn't tie up the man enough. But I don't blame him for throwing a puck up the boards to the wing that's suppose to be there, but the D-man pinching in and winning the battle his fault at all, That is on his winger.

Same with Myers, some of the things people blamed him were not his fault either, but a variety of bad decisions made by the other 4 players on the ice with him too.

Early in the year, I blame Leopold and Myers for how bad our defensive struggles were, neither could get it out of the zone at all.

And some of these great players in this league are not two-way players at all. Their defense is more emphasized because of how often they actually score which is a false inflation of their defense.



Any examples? We pretty much know the players who don't really play defense, but score a lot (Ovechkin, Semin, Jagr, to name a few), but players like Toews, Datsyuk, Bergeron (Selke finalists), Pominville, Crosby, Kopitar, etc. are all responsible in their own zone.

To say that players that score more often have their defensive numbers inflated is a reach when there are plenty of examples of players that score often and don't play defense and those that do play defense.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Malkin and Kane. You could also say Brad Richards, Giroux to an extent, Kovalchuk never played D until he came to the Devils where he was forced to or he would be benched for it.

And if you think OV doesn't play D then you clearly don't watch him when he plays. He does twice the amount of things on the ice than Malkin and Crosby, like hitting things that move.

And Crosby, I don't believe he's all that great at defense, he may be alright, but he is nowhere near great at it.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Yeah Ovechkin plays defense. At least physically.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Malkin and Kane. You could also say Brad Richards, Giroux to an extent, Kovalchuk never played D until he came to the Devils where he was forced to or he would be benched for it.

And if you think OV doesn't play D then you clearly don't watch him when he plays. He does twice the amount of things on the ice than Malkin and Crosby, like hitting things that move.

And Crosby, I don't believe he's all that great at defense, he may be alright, but he is nowhere near great at it.


Hitting does not equal defense.

Crosby isn't great defensively, but he's responsible enough in his own zone, and he doesn't quit.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Defense.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:11 pm 
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How is hitting not defense? You're physically attacking the puck carrier...

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Vanek_Fanatic_26 wrote:
Defense.

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When that puck was turned over, OV was at the redline for that breakout pass, how do you go 100 feet in 1 second to get there?

Regardless of how hard he skated, he would have never caught the shooter, and it wasn't his job, as a winger he needs to be covering the point when he comes back into the play in case the pass is made.

Do you not know basic fundamentals of hockey?

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:26 pm 
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lol the way he stared at him

"aw shit"

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