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sabresindc
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:06 pm 
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An interesting read from The Hockey News about the Sabres and Capitals.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/52877-Sabres-Caps-must-stop-standing-pat.html


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It’s nearly August, for hockey gods’ sake. Does anyone want to tell Sabres GM Darcy Regier and his Capitals counterpart George McPhee? Both are doing their best statue impersonations at a time in each team’s history that cries out for at least a modicum of change. Yet with their near-total absence of action, both are making the case that the rosters that failed so spectacularly somehow deserve another chance.

Sorry, but I’m not buying, leasing, renting or timesharing that argument, not for a single second. It’s one thing to dance with them what brung you; it’s something else entirely when them what brung you are insisting on dancing like nobody’s watching and/or paying them to dance. Loyalty is admirable to a degree, but eventually that attitude turns into organizational inertia and that’s what puts teams in a competitive death spiral.

I’m not advocating for a massive turnover of talent in Buffalo and Washington. There are players in the Caps and Sabres’ systems worth hanging onto. But even teams that suffered significant disappointment in previous years knew the status quo wasn’t an option: the Ottawa Senators bottomed out in 2010-11 and dealt Mike Fisher, Chris Kelly and Jarkko Ruutu. That same season, the New Jersey Devils missed the playoffs for the first time since 1995-96 and GM Lou Lamoriello traded longtime stalwarts Jamie Langenbrunner and Jason Arnott.

In fairness to McPhee and Regier, they did make a few moves during the 2012-13 campaign. Washington dealt highly touted prospect Filip Forsberg to Nashville for veteran winger Martin Erat, while Buffalo shipped out blueliners Robyn Regehr and Jordan Leopold as well as former captain Jason Pominville. But since then, there have been virtually no changes for either team. The Sabres brought back Henrik Tallinder to serve as a ‘P.E.D.’ (Performance-Enhancing Defenseman) for his former and once-again-current blueline partner Tyler Myers, and swapped Andrej Sekera to Carolina for Jamie McBain. The Caps allowed No. 2 center Mike Ribeiro to depart for Phoenix via unrestricted free agency and have yet to replace him.

Considering the Sabres haven’t won a playoff round since 2007 and the Capitals haven’t made it out of the second round since 1998, their devotion to their respective cores is more than a little curious. It’s bordering on pathological and getting closer to crossing that border with every day of transactional inactivity.

I mean, are we really supposed to believe a Capitals team whose second line is currently Brooks Laich centering Erat and Troy Brouwer is going to make noise this season? Maybe the noise of a slowly deflating balloon, but that’s about it. With diminishing returns like this, how long is it before we hear whispers of Alex Ovechkin following countryman Ilya Kovalchuk back to Russia via “retirement”? The question still seems somewhat far-fetched, but considering how the Caps look primed to take a step back it’s less preposterous to ask the question now than it was in January.

And if you’re the Sabres and you saw what happened to Jarome Iginla’s trade value in Calgary last season – think the Great Stock Market Crash of 1929 – how can you even consider holding on to Ryan Miller? The star goalie needs a new challenge that Buffalo can’t provide, yet part of his value right now is the fact he’s signed for this season. If you wait until the trade deadline, that value vanishes and you’ll likely only receive a decent draft pick or prospect in return. That would be unforgivable given what Miller has meant to this franchise.

Nobody is saying the Caps or Sabres should make a deal just to make headlines. But these two teams have no business standing pat. As Stars GM Jim Nill quickly demonstrated after his move to Dallas, change can be effected swiftly and in a positive manner.

The status quo is acceptable for the team that wins the Stanley Cup. For every other team, it’s a harbinger of dark days and regretful-toned press releases to come. And there’s simply no justification for it.


The more time goes on, the more I worried that a Briere/Drury situation will develop with Miller and Vanek.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Like I've been saying, they need to do something. Sign a player or two, trade Miller/Vanek. I'd be okay with holding on to one or both of them until a deal comes along, as long as we do something else.

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sabresindc
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:15 am 
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As we all know, Darcy tends to over estimate a players value. I have a feeling that the price is so high for them that no team, in their right minds, would touch Miller or Vanek. He is really setting himself up for a bad situation again.

Here is my concerns at this point.
Miller and Vanek will both be on the roster at the start of the season. Chances are great that they both play lights out in hopes to build their value come free agency. This will help the Sabres in the standings, possibly positioning them for a playoff chance. At that point Darcy would not let them go at the trade deadline. So when the Sabres finish 9th or barely squeak in and lose in the first round then the Darcy is fucked. He let the trade deadline pass and now come free agency neither of them will re-sign with the Sabres.
There is a chance, albeit slim, that Miller and Vanek do not play well or gets injured. Which causes the team to sink quicker than the Titanic. Then Darcy is primed to drop Miller and Vanek at the deadline. Teams needed their services sees the desperation in Darcy's eyes and low balls the offer. Darcy, with no other option, takes the meek offer and gets shit in return.

I am not seeing a winning scenario at this point. If he doesn't sign then before the season begins, even for a year or two, then one of these scenarios will happen.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Um, St. Louis could use a goalie. The tag team of Halak/Elliott didn't do much for them last season. Thats why they talked to Darcy about Miller at the draft but Darcy wanted too much. Obviously we will never know what Darcy was asking for Miller.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:51 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Um, St. Louis could use a goalie. The tag team of Halak/Elliott didn't do much for them last season. Thats why they talked to Darcy about Miller at the draft but Darcy wanted too much. Obviously we will never know what Darcy was asking for Miller.

Do you just make up shit to say?

Please, St. Louis had a 2.38 goals against average with Halak and Elliot. Same as LA had, ranked 8th, or 7th since they tied with LA in goals against. They had 114 goals against them, only 17 more than Chicago did, and 21 less than us, 53 less than Florida that had the most against.

Yea, Halak and Elliot really hurt them, they need more offense, as they were a middle of the road team in scoring.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Um, St. Louis could use a goalie. The tag team of Halak/Elliott didn't do much for them last season. Thats why they talked to Darcy about Miller at the draft but Darcy wanted too much. Obviously we will never know what Darcy was asking for Miller.

Do you just make up shit to say?

Please, St. Louis had a 2.38 goals against average with Halak and Elliot. Same as LA had, ranked 8th, or 7th since they tied with LA in goals against. They had 114 goals against them, only 17 more than Chicago did, and 21 less than us, 53 less than Florida that had the most against.

Yea, Halak and Elliot really hurt them, they need more offense, as they were a middle of the road team in scoring.

Um... St Louis actually said they inquired about Miller.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:37 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Um, St. Louis could use a goalie. The tag team of Halak/Elliott didn't do much for them last season. Thats why they talked to Darcy about Miller at the draft but Darcy wanted too much. Obviously we will never know what Darcy was asking for Miller.

Do you just make up shit to say?

Please, St. Louis had a 2.38 goals against average with Halak and Elliot. Same as LA had, ranked 8th, or 7th since they tied with LA in goals against. They had 114 goals against them, only 17 more than Chicago did, and 21 less than us, 53 less than Florida that had the most against.

Yea, Halak and Elliot really hurt them, they need more offense, as they were a middle of the road team in scoring.

Um... St Louis actually said they inquired about Miller.

I replied to the part where Elliot and Halak did nothing for them. Which clearly isn't true.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Well if St Louis inquired about Miller, therefore they could use a goalie. Which means St Louis' GM isn't sold on either of them yet.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:10 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Well if St Louis inquired about Miller, therefore they could use a goalie. Which means St Louis' GM isn't sold on either of them yet.

He should be, he needs to worry more about offense over his goalies right now.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:17 pm 
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I would say Calgary could use a goalie, with Kipper retiring, but I guess they're comfortable rolling with Joey MacDonald and Karri Ramo.

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sabresindc
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Um, St. Louis could use a goalie. The tag team of Halak/Elliott didn't do much for them last season. Thats why they talked to Darcy about Miller at the draft but Darcy wanted too much. Obviously we will never know what Darcy was asking for Miller.

Do you just make up shit to say?

Please, St. Louis had a 2.38 goals against average with Halak and Elliot. Same as LA had, ranked 8th, or 7th since they tied with LA in goals against. They had 114 goals against them, only 17 more than Chicago did, and 21 less than us, 53 less than Florida that had the most against.

Yea, Halak and Elliot really hurt them, they need more offense, as they were a middle of the road team in scoring.


Um... St Louis actually said they inquired about Miller.

I replied to the part where Elliot and Halak did nothing for them. Which clearly isn't true.

How bout a combined .898 SV%???? Which goalies are usually are compared with.....The stats you stated also can be skewed if the defense played well. If you're not facing shots the shots then you will have a lower goals against. Combined, they are an adequate pair but obviously they are looking from a full time go too

For the hell of it I checked their blocked shots. For the 2012-2013 season they had a whopping 425 blocked shots. Thats only the top 6 players! Pietrangelo had 101 himself. I add a screen shot for your pursing.

So don't say I'm making shit up.


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_________________
sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.
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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:56 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Um, St. Louis could use a goalie. The tag team of Halak/Elliott didn't do much for them last season. Thats why they talked to Darcy about Miller at the draft but Darcy wanted too much. Obviously we will never know what Darcy was asking for Miller.

Do you just make up shit to say?

Please, St. Louis had a 2.38 goals against average with Halak and Elliot. Same as LA had, ranked 8th, or 7th since they tied with LA in goals against. They had 114 goals against them, only 17 more than Chicago did, and 21 less than us, 53 less than Florida that had the most against.

Yea, Halak and Elliot really hurt them, they need more offense, as they were a middle of the road team in scoring.


Um... St Louis actually said they inquired about Miller.

I replied to the part where Elliot and Halak did nothing for them. Which clearly isn't true.

How bout a combined .898 SV%???? Which goalies are usually are compared with.....The stats you stated also can be skewed if the defense played well. If you're not facing shots the shots then you will have a lower goals against. Combined, they are an adequate pair but obviously they are looking from a full time go too

For the hell of it I checked their blocked shots. For the 2012-2013 season they had a whopping 425 blocked shots. Thats only the top 6 players! Pietrangelo had 101 himself. I add a screen shot for your pursing.

So don't say I'm making shit up.

They faced 812 shots combined and stopped 734 of them, which is a .904 sv%. Not great but they still as a team only average 24 shots a game. And if you let in two goals, your sv% would then be around a .905, which those two did.

And even adding in their third goalie, they still faced 1158 shots and saved 1047 of them which is a .904 sv%. So please tell me how you got .898% from?

Maybe they were trying to secure their future for a couple more years seeing how both are UFA at the end of this season. But then again my question I asked still needs answering, which teams in the NHL actually need a starting goaltender? It is still none of them. Outside the Islanders, but they signed Nabakov, and have many prospects in their system for goalie.

Where the hell are you getting the .898% from? I'd love to see sabresindc math to get that number. But there is one thing you are right about, they did face the least amount of shots a game, because of blocked shots.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:29 pm 
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To be honest, I think St Louis wanted "the" goalie, and not Halak and Elliot which are good but not as good as Miller. I would've taken Elliot(or Halak) and a pick(or a player) for Miller, but that might've been what Darcy offered, prompting St Louis to say the price is too high.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:31 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
To be honest, I think St Louis wanted "the" goalie, and not Halak and Elliot which are good but not as good as Miller. I would've taken Elliot(or Halak) and a pick(or a player) for Miller, but that might've been what Darcy offered, prompting St Louis to say the price is too high.

Possibly. I would take Halak and a pick for Miller, 1st round pick I'd hope though.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Define "needs". All teams have goalies on their roster, but I don't think there are no teams looking to improve. Florida, Tampa, and NY Islanders look like potential upgrade candidates. The Bulin Wall and Nabakov aren't what they used to be, and Florida's best goalie had a .901 sv% last year.


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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Define "needs". All teams have goalies on their roster, but I don't think there are no teams looking to improve. Florida, Tampa, and NY Islanders look like potential upgrade candidates. The Bulin Wall and Nabakov aren't what they used to be, and Florida's best goalie had a .901 sv% last year.


The Bulin Wall? I don't think Chicago grabbed Khabby so he could be their starter, and the Islanders just re-signed Nabby, so I don't think they're looking for another goalie at the moment.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Name a team that needs a goalie right now.

I'll do that for you. None.

Define "needs". All teams have goalies on their roster, but I don't think there are no teams looking to improve. Florida, Tampa, and NY Islanders look like potential upgrade candidates. The Bulin Wall and Nabakov aren't what they used to be, and Florida's best goalie had a .901 sv% last year.

Florida has stated they are going with their young goalie Markstrom or whatever his name is.

Tampa last year traded for Bishop, why would they want to trade for another goalie? Their goaltending isn't as strong as Miller, but that doesn't mean those teams actually want Miller.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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sabresindc
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Yeah, I must of put down a wrong number on that addition. They're not the worse team in the league for goaltending but they're not great. Neither of them play consistent. Maybe it was a scare tactic to get them to wake up and play like they could play. No matter what, the Sabres will have Miller for the bulk of the season. The good thing, he'll probably play like he did four years ago. So this will be probably the best change the Sabres have to get into the playoffs for some time.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:23 pm 
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So uh... Does Calgary have a goalie?

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