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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:06 am 
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Last edited by YankeeInRaleigh on Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ksquier89
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:09 am 
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China's defense of North Korea is about as relevant as Tomigachi's. China will only be forced to defend North Korea if they are attacked first. China is scared because the government apparently will be wielded dually between Kim Fat and the military. Military taking a primary role until Kim Fat can be groomed and indoctrinated. Having the military leading the country usually results in a show of military strength to show the countries resolve and that they are strong and can handle the newfound power. Being awfully close and in a stalmated war with a neighbor leaves the room for error in showing this military strength at a minimum. One stray missile and South Korea thinks that this new military power is showing strength by re-engaging. South Korea makes the move and blows their country to shit and China has to step in. China steps in and South Korea, Japan, and Vietnam have an excuse to show off their military power and fight back against China's wanting control of international waterways.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:15 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
Anyone besides me think we should take him out before he can name a successor and ruin their little family tradition?

And take responsibility for another failed state? No thanks. 4 days after we left Iraq, the vice-president gets accused of running death-squads. We spent 9 years there. I'm thinking maybe our military isn't so very great at solving problems of sucession. (Pinnochet, the Shah, Hamid Karzai...)


Agreed. I'd rather not intervene. For a laundry list of reasons.

Mainly that we can't afford it, and that it threatens our national security as well as South Korea's. It would also mightily piss off China, who'd rather not have a war going on at their boarder.


Oh, no, I didn't mean like a full on militaristic takedown. I mean like one single well-placed shot.

OK, but if we look at some of the historical examples of this, they didn't work out so hot. Allende got replaced by Pinnochet In Argentina, Patrice Lumumba by Mobutu in Congo/Zaire, Mossaddegh was replaced by the Shah in Iran. Those were all done with US help, and they all ended up making conditions worse for the people in their countries.


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ksquier89
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:15 pm 
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YankeeInRaleigh wrote:
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Sorry that was not an attack back at you. I was just trying to explain how trivial diplomacy is right now and how dire the situation is. China will not openly admit it but deep down they wish North Korea gets attacked and has free reign. China's pursuit of retaking Taiwan has been at the forefront since they lost the bastard. North Korea's firing of missiles may rile up national pride and faith but their technology with missiles has proved shotty at best in the past. One faulty missile passing the DMZ and a shit storm like you have never seen before smacks us all in the face.


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ksquier89
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:22 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
Anyone besides me think we should take him out before he can name a successor and ruin their little family tradition?

And take responsibility for another failed state? No thanks. 4 days after we left Iraq, the vice-president gets accused of running death-squads. We spent 9 years there. I'm thinking maybe our military isn't so very great at solving problems of sucession. (Pinnochet, the Shah, Hamid Karzai...)


Agreed. I'd rather not intervene. For a laundry list of reasons.

Mainly that we can't afford it, and that it threatens our national security as well as South Korea's. It would also mightily piss off China, who'd rather not have a war going on at their boarder.


Oh, no, I didn't mean like a full on militaristic takedown. I mean like one single well-placed shot.

OK, but if we look at some of the historical examples of this, they didn't work out so hot. Allende got replaced by Pinnochet In Argentina, Patrice Lumumba by Mobutu in Congo/Zaire, Mossaddegh was replaced by the Shah in Iran. Those were all done with US help, and they all ended up making conditions worse for the people in their countries.

When we do not intervene it has proven just as costly. The whole world played dumb as Germany built a massive arsenal and killed millions of people. If Japan does not bomb Pearl Harbor we intervene to late and Britain gets overrun. Germany can then focus its attention to the Eastern and Southern theatres. Germaany takes African and Russian oil fields and we are talking German right now. We had German subs scouting possible invasion points along the southerna nd eastern US seaboard. If we stayed laissez-faire and we would have been fucked. So that leads us to intervening going wrong. They are both wrong but at least with intervening you would hopefully crush a lunatics aspirations before they come to fruition.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Yeah, but Kim Jong Un isn't Hitler and isn't in a full blown world war trying to dominate everything around him.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.


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ksquier89
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:17 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Yeah, but Kim Jong Un isn't Hitler and isn't in a full blown world war trying to dominate everything around him.


If we did not back South Korea who is to say North Korea would not be pillaging island to island? We know they did not by military action and specific sanctions. Our military held nutjob back.
And you are right he was not Hitler. You know who else was not Hitler? Joseph Stalin who mass murdered in the tens of millions. Let that settle in. Plenty of "god" leaders in Africa going on ethnic cleansings who aren't Hitler either. Now imagine if these cot chewing "gods" had their fingers on a nuke. They kill women and children by the most grotesque of means so why would they not nuke someone? If they had more power they would use it.


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