i think you're confusing the numbers. they want to be paid 4.65 per customer, to be on par with espn, which is paid about 4.69

Well they're not involved, in any way that they have power. The Sabres aren't nearly as much a part of it as TWC and MSG - they're not in that contract, they can't dictate the terms. They're on the same level as the Rangers, Islanders, Devils, and Knicks - being hurt by it.

Their only option would be to buy their way out of the rest of the contract - and that's likely many millions of dollars - even with Pegula's pockets, I don't think it's something they're going to do.

In the meantime, should they keep their mouths shut? No reason for them to. They've got every right to be upset. They're hurting from it.

MSG != ESPN, even though ESPN sucks donkey dick when it comes to hockey coverage.

MSG has the Knicks, Islanders, Rangers, and Sabres.

ESPN has SportsCenter, Golf, Football, Baseball....notice how instead of naming teams, ESPN encompasses entire sports? Yeah.

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So you'd rather have ESPN than Sabre's games, because that's the choice I offered? If you answer 'no', then why the heck should you pay MORE for what you'd want LESS. Makes ZERO sense. I could give 2 fucks about para-sailing or anything else the "all-encompassing" ESPN shows. I like hockey, football, and boxing. I don't need ESPN for any of them. I got NHLN, NFLN, and HBO for these. If you like baseball and basketball, I'm sure they have networks also. ESPN can suck a dick, imo. For the record, if I were dumb enough to still have TWC, I couldn't have NFLN(because they're greedy unlike TWC), and I'd have to pay an extra $6 for NHLN.

Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but this issue is annoying. If you want the Sabres games, you're gonna have to pay for them. I think it's worth every penny, and I don't care if MSG doesn't cover the x-games. The product they are offering is what I want, so I'll pay.


Maybe crosscheck should call a press conference about how this is hurting his GDT's, too. The Sabres can cry all they want, but this is a business. You fail to realize that MSG is owned by Rainbow, which is owned by Cablevision, which is a publicly held company who has influence in many markets. The 'going rate' has nothing to do with which carriers are picking up MSG. The going rate means that's what other local markets are paying for their sports coverage. Why should TWC receive a discount, because the Sabres say so?? Sounds foolish to even type it. MSG already paid the Sabres, and as such should honor that agreement. I think it's a bit rude for them to step on the toes of the guys who supported them, and gave them a contract.

Maybe we should try to make an example where our emotions aren't involved.

Company A sells their product to company B for X dollars. Company B then negotiates selling the product to company C for Y dollars. Is it fair for Company C to lobby company A to get a better price from company B? I think not. That's dirty pool to me. So is trying to get the public riled up to get a better deal. What does company B do to combat this? They offer the riled up public alternate means to obtain their product, which seems fair to me.

No, that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that ESPN has a much wider market with much greater appeal and should rightly command a higher price.

It's like your local public access channel demanding the same as the Discovery channel.

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Ya, but ESPN DOES NOT have greater appeal than Sabres games. Can't you understand that. Should you have to pay Pizza hut triple for a pizza, because they're bigger than your local pizzeria, even though you want the local pizzeria's pizza more?????????????????????????

If I wanted the programming on my local access channel more than the programming on Discovery, I'd expect to pay more for it.

Look, if you like ESPN's programming more than the Sabre's games, I understand your point, but I'd prefer to spend my money on the Sabre's games, rather than ESPN. This is simple economics. Which do you want worse, because that's the one you're going to pay more for.

To you, that's true. To me that might be true. To most non-hockey fanatics, it's just not though.

If all you want is the Sabres, get NHL gamecenter and you don't need to get cable, hell, you don't even need a TV. But for most of us we're looking for more than the one product. 10 years ago I got cable solely to get Center Ice. Now I'm married, don't go out anywhere near as much, and the other cable channels are more important to me.

I see what you mean. I guess in that case you'd have to go by most viewed. I know we have the highest ratings of any fan base, so I suppose ESPN's ratings would have to match that to garner more cash. I doubt as many viewers watch 9 hours of ESPN/week as do MSG. Then again, hockey season doesn't last all year either. In any event, if this is the rate other sports networks are getting, then that's what TWC should have to pay; or at least in that ball park. What I read said they only wanted to give them a 6% increase. The wild card here is MSG is forcing another network down TWC's throat. I'd like to ask TWC how that feels, cuz we sure as hell know(TWC sports pack $5.95 -14 useless channels plus NHLN). Kind of poetic justice if ya ask me.

I also wonder how non-sports fans like this. We're forcing these high priced sports networks down their throats. I think we need to overhaul the whole media biz.

That's not a valid option - because we live in the MSG broadcast area, it's blacked out....even on Gamecenter Live.

Daz - you're still refusing to see the forest through the trees....our favorite team and our favorite sport aren't as popular and therefore don't have the market value of ESPN. That's what I'm saying.


I'm willing to shell out $10 more per month to have MSG. My neighbor that doesn't even know what a hockey puck looks like might not be so willing.

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Why? If it's on Direct TV, I don't get why it would be blacked out on gamecenter, which has nothing to do with Time Warner.

Can anyone confirm or deny this gamecenter business?

IF you live in Western NY, it will be blacked out on GameCenter, just like on Center Ice.

MSG has exclusive rights to the broadcast in this area, and thus you aren't able to watch it on GameCenter.

I get that, but MSG is broadcasting on Direct TV in WNY no? It's also not blacked out on my Center Ice on Comcast cable. Thus it's blacked out not on Center Ice, but on Center Ice on Time Warner cable. Gamecenter isn't broadcast on TWC right? I just don't get why it would be blacked out on gamecenter, unless MSG also has a contract dispute with gamecenter.

As long as one provider, in this case Direct TV, is broadcasting the games, Center Ice is blacked out.

If Direct TV wasn't showing the games, then Sabres games through MSG on CI could be shown - I think..., I mean MSG has a contract with Center Ice. But MSG doesn't have a contract in other areas (Outside of NY/NJ) so maybe not.

Just correct the problem. Hell, I'd gladly give up ESPN, as I don't even watch it anyhow. (Hypothetically speaking - cuz that isn't a choice..)

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"I'll rap you with my cane; you pencil necked geek!!"

-Bowler, imitating Freddy Blassie, at the very first M & G.

Exactly Howie. Why should WNY'ers be ponying up for ESPN when most sports fans here would clearly rather have the Sabres games? ESPN may be more popular elsewhere, but here the Sabres reign supreme. TWC should realize the wants and needs of its customers. Why should $7+/month of our hard earned cash go to feeding some media giant while we sit on our hands watching the national cheerleading championships instead of the Sabres games.

Stu, just so you know it's the same way with NFL Sunday ticket and the Bills. CI or ST have no rights to the local games.

Thanks guys, I understand now. I don't have a local broadcast at all in hockey, so I don't have anything blacked out on Center Ice unless it's on VS.

Yeah...our only option is to either go to a bar or watch the stream illegally.

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I spent the better part of a couple seasons going to a bar for every game. If you like drinking and spending too much money for it, it's not a bad way to go. It worked well for that part of my life, but wouldn't work so well now that my testicles are housed in my wife's purse.

Ehh, I watch more ESPN than I do Sabres hockey and it's not that I don't care about watching the Sabres, I just watch a lot of ESPN for whatever reason. It's not really fair to make a blanket statement like that. I (and many others) don't value MSG as high as ESPN. I can find feeds online since that's all I care to watch on MSG anyway.

Dropping ESPN would hurt TWC far more than dropping MSG. Maybe not in Buffalo, but we're not their only market.