It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:57 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:07 pm 
Offline
Hart Winner
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:42 pm
Posts: 9770
Location: Buffalo, NY
I don't know what to believe. This shit is crazy. First, I hear Zimmerman followed Martin then shot him. Then I heard Zimmerman wrestled with him and was attacked by Martin, and according to witnesses this was true. According to witnesses/Zimmerman, too, he had a broken nose and bloody face. Then there's a video with him on it shortly after with no wounds at all.

At this point, I'm not giving a shit until I get the actual ending of the story.

_________________
"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:33 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
on the 911 tapes, zimmerman calls him a "fucking coon." and says "they always get away."

last i knew they weren't sure if he said that or not


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:58 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
PatGreen wrote:
or are you just swallowing every media's story and following this stupid hoodie movement?

I think he's just trying to make a rational assumption from what is known. Can you think of anything else that would have made him seem "suspicious"? The dispatcher said to leave him alone, but he ignored the advice. Now, somehow this scrawny 17 year old decides to jump this much larger 28 year old man who has a gun for what reason?? I guess if you think he may have been provoked, you're Al Sharpton????????

I don't know the facts, but something isn't passing the sniff test here, and since when does a linebacker getting punched by Steve Urchel require a fatal gunshot reply anyways?


Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:10 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
it doesn't matter what is required or what you THINK happened. there is NO EVIDENCE that can be used to put zimmerman in jail. hate crime or not. it just ISN'T there, and witnesses have had conflicting stories and without any evidence, you can't just put someone in jail because the world thinks you should. i highly doubt that zimmerman was not arrested solely because martin was black.


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
Any cop worth a grain of salt would be able to figure out what happened here by questioning alone. This case shouldn't require the services of Sherlock Holmes. As for evidence, I'd say his statement of, "these assholes always get away", combined with him ignoring the direction to stay put, could be considered motive.

Things I know as fact:

the "hoodie movement" is fact based. The racist fuckhead told the dispatcher the hoodie and being black is what made him suspicious. Besides, I know enough racist people to back the claim up anyways.

If you're still not convinced he was a racist, then who is he referring to when he says, "THESE ASSHOLES always get away". Sure doesn't sound like a blanket statement about criminals in general to me.

Now, if I'm in a bar, getting drunk, jamming some Skynerd, and start saying things like, "I hate ni@@ers", then minutes later I'm found out in the parking lot with a dead black guy at my feet, I'd expect to be charged, even though no one "saw me do it". Especially when I'm 6'2", and the black guy is smaller than a teenage girl, and I'm claiming "self-defense". I think anyone who's buying that is pretty much a fucking idiot. Grand juries and juries often convict on circumstantial evidence, as credible witnesses and video cameras usually are avoided by criminals.


Top
 Profile  
 
ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:33 pm 
Offline
Captain Dynasty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 15390
Location: michigan
PatGreen wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
on the 911 tapes, zimmerman calls him a "fucking coon." and says "they always get away."

last i knew they weren't sure if he said that or not


the official story is they are unsure. listen to it yourself.

there is enough evidence to put zimmerman in jail. a kid is dead. that should be enough to at least warrant an arrest and subsequent investigation. given that the sanford police department has a history of bungling cases, and the poor way this was handled, it certainly deserves a serious look. i have a feeling that whole city is going to flipped upside down.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:39 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
They are fairly sure the guy crying for help on the 911 tape wasn't Zimmerman. I guess when you're putting up the Herculean fight of your life, beating up a man twice your size, you cry out, "help"?????????????????????????????

On the tape he says, "fucking punks". It's clear as day. This guy had a bad attitude, and was looking for trouble. He found it, and now he has to pay the price.


Top
 Profile  
 
ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:40 pm 
Offline
Captain Dynasty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 15390
Location: michigan
daz28 wrote:
They are fairly sure the guy crying for help on the 911 tape wasn't Zimmerman. I guess when you're putting up the Herculean fight of your life, beating up a man twice your size, you cry out, "help"?????????????????????????????

On the tape he says, "fucking punks". It's clear as day. This guy had a bad attitude, and was looking for trouble. He found it, and now he has to pay the price.


voice experts arnt fairly sure the guy yelling help wasnt zimmerman, they are CERTAIN its not him.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:42 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
daz28 wrote:
They are fairly sure the guy crying for help on the 911 tape wasn't Zimmerman. I guess when you're putting up the Herculean fight of your life, beating up a man twice your size, you cry out, "help"?????????????????????????????

On the tape he says, "fucking punks". It's clear as day. This guy had a bad attitude, and was looking for trouble. He found it, and now he has to pay the price.


voice experts arnt fairly sure the guy yelling help wasnt zimmerman, they are CERTAIN its not him.

Ya, they can't be certain, but the expert who's been doing it forever said he was positive it wasn't the racist prick. I think in court the jury would believe his expert opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:54 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
i think, before this gets too far, it's important for me to not that i am neither arguing that what happened is right, nor that zimmerman is innocent. all i'm arguing is that as far as what information the public has been given, it is not unreasonable that the situation has been transpired as such.

i apologize if i got angry a bit ago. i'm just sick of this flavor of the week human rights shit- last week it was kony, next week it will be something else. no one really gives a damn, they just pretend to.

daz28 wrote:
Any cop worth a grain of salt would be able to figure out what happened here by questioning alone. As for evidence, I'd say his statement of, "these assholes always get away", combined with him ignoring the direction to stay put, could be considered motive.

Besides, I know enough racist people to back the claim up anyways.

If you're still not convinced he was a racist, then who is he referring to when he says, "THESE ASSHOLES always get away". Sure doesn't sound like a blanket statement about criminals in general to me.

Now, if I'm in a bar, getting drunk, jamming some Skynerd, and start saying things like, "I hate ni@@ers", then minutes later I'm found out in the parking lot with a dead black guy at my feet, I'd expect to be charged, even though no one "saw me do it". Especially when I'm 6'2", and the black guy is smaller than a teenage girl, and I'm claiming "self-defense". I think anyone who's buying that is pretty much a fucking idiot. Grand juries and juries often convict on circumstantial evidence, as credible witnesses and video cameras usually are avoided by criminals.

none of this is worth a grain of salt. i think you're misunderstanding the point of the constitution. innocent until proven guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt). i don't care if he is a racist. the point is, that in america, that it doesn't matter. well, it can matter circumstantially, but just being a racist isn't enough to be convicted of murder.

sure, you might be able to construe any of that as motive. HOWEVER, some witnesses are arguing FOR him, and some against him. there is no evidence there against him because, unless you know something no one else does, there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not acting in self defense.

ironyisadeadscene wrote:
there is enough evidence to put zimmerman in jail. a kid is dead. that should be enough to at least warrant an arrest and subsequent investigation.

i don't need to and i'm not going to. if they cops and prosecutors aren't sure, that's enough for me. this is high profile enough that if they knew for sure, it would be said they did. i'm not saying someone didn't mess with the tapes a little, but i am saying that what is there is what is being judged. you don't just put someone in jail before there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not acting in self defense. they can't do that. with what evidence i've heard, and the lack of consistent witness accounts, it's even unlikely that a jury of his peers put him in jail.


Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:56 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
voice experts arnt fairly sure the guy yelling help wasnt zimmerman, they are CERTAIN its not him.

correct me if i'm wrong, but they can't confirm that it was martin, either, which is where the hang up is.


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:02 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
People are looking for an arrest. The innocent until proven guilty, and beyond a reasonable doubt part come later. The issue here is that even to the laymen on the street, things aren't adding up here. People want the wheels of justice to turn, and decide the outcome. They don't want a police department who may be worried about protecting their own interests making these decisions by themselves. You don't need a smoking gun to make an arrest. Even one contradictory statement by the racist douchebag should be enough to get an arrest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:34 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
daz28 wrote:
People are looking for an arrest. People want the wheels of justice to turn, and decide the outcome.
Even one contradictory statement by the racist douchebag should be enough to get an arrest.

revenge=/= justice
and i disagree


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:49 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
What do you disagree with, and how did you get "revenge" from anything I posted????????/

Revenge would be someone going vigilante on the guy. All I'd ask for is a day in court.

Did you disagree with Scott Peterson being arrested, too?? ...or Casey Anthony?

Let the courts do what their supposed to do. There's no way one prosecutor should be holding this up like this. His only reasoning would be to save the court some money, but on the other side, it would be an OJ type trial. Maybe he's afraid of riots? I can't read the guys mind, but if riots are what it takes to get justice, then so be it.

Pat, I know you love to argue, but look, if there was a fight with a death, and one guy cries self-defense, but an audio expert claims it was the other guy crying for help, you don't think that's enough evidence for a grand jury?????????????????/ C'mon man. Turn 'The Factor' off, and come out of the bubble.


Top
 Profile  
 
ironyisadeadscene
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:03 pm 
Offline
Captain Dynasty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 15390
Location: michigan
PatGreen wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
voice experts arnt fairly sure the guy yelling help wasnt zimmerman, they are CERTAIN its not him.

correct me if i'm wrong, but they can't confirm that it was martin, either, which is where the hang up is.


correct.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:05 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
PatGreen wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
voice experts arnt fairly sure the guy yelling help wasnt zimmerman, they are CERTAIN its not him.

correct me if i'm wrong, but they can't confirm that it was martin, either, which is where the hang up is.


correct.

The real issue here is that if it's not Zimmerman, then there needs to be further investigation. This works AGAINST Zimmerman, not for him. It's not a "hang up", it's called reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman's story holds water.


Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:07 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
daz28 wrote:
What do you disagree with, and how did you get "revenge" from anything I posted????????/

Revenge would be someone going vigilante on the guy. All I'd ask for is a day in court.

Did you disagree with Scott Peterson being arrested, too?? ...or Casey Anthony?

Let the courts do what their supposed to do. There's no way one prosecutor should be holding this up like this. His only reasoning would be to save the court some money, but on the other side, it would be an OJ type trial. Maybe he's afraid of riots? I can't read the guys mind, but if riots are what it takes to get justice, then so be it.


daz, the straw man is your best friend, i know. people don't want justice, they want the revenge. scott peterson and casey anthony weren't immediately arrested either.
i forgot, you're a legal expert too.


Last edited by PatGreen on Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:08 pm 
Offline
PP Quarterback

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 1836
daz28 wrote:
The real issue here is that if it's not Zimmerman, then there needs to be further investigation. This works AGAINST Zimmerman, not for him. It's not a "hang up", it's called reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman's story holds water.

it could be. but they can't prove it's either.
"if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit."


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:16 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
I hope being an asshole is better than being wrong, yet still arguing most of the time. In fact, I'd have to think that's more the definition of an asshole.

If you were offended by the bubble comment, i'd say that denying there is a any evidence worth looking at here CLEARLY is being in the bubble. I've given you MANY examples of where there may be evidence worth looking at, and because of that I'm a "legal expert asshole"? I refrain from the name calling, even though I'm inclined to, but I'll let my assertions do the talking.

"People don't want justice, they want revenge"??????? Says who? You? I have no idea where this idea even sprung from other than the depths of your mind???

Perhaps a mod could delete the fucking asshole comment, and the bubble comment, seeing it hurt Pat's feelings.


Top
 Profile  
 
daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:19 pm 
Offline
Star Sniper

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm
Posts: 3363
PatGreen wrote:
daz28 wrote:
The real issue here is that if it's not Zimmerman, then there needs to be further investigation. This works AGAINST Zimmerman, not for him. It's not a "hang up", it's called reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman's story holds water.

it could be. but they can't prove it's either.
"if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit."

Pat, do you even know what a grand jury is????????????????/

I don't think you do. All they decide is if the glove is evidence. They don't decide anything else.

The grand jury doesn't PROVE anything. It seems you know very little about the justice system, so arguing with you is about pointless.

Your statement, "it could be" SUPPORTS the idea of a grand jury, but you're still arguing against one. Do some homework, bro.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron