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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
No purpose other than recreation" eh? So I couldn't get myself to Seattle in a Lamborghini eh?

Sure, but it wouldn't be comfortable, economical or practical.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
A gun is a tool just like any of those objects you named.
It's not a device designed for "murdering humans".

You can use it to scare away a bear, to hunt for your dinner, to open a lock, for recreational target shooting et. etc. etc.

You honestly want to tell me it's in the same category? And "open a lock"? come on. Your list of what a gun can do should basically read : 1.kill someone 2.scare someone into thinking they'll be killed 3.practice killing someone

Target shooting?
Stress relief?
Protecting a family?

Those aren't things a gun can do?

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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
I see your point, but it still doesn't give me a sense of complete satisfaction. I feel like if you legally bought a gun, but then concealed it or took it into a restricted area to commit a crime, it's a little bogus to then not classify that crime in the same way as an "above board" shooting.


Well, you really can't use a gun (legally or illegally owned) to commit a violent crime if it's concealed. Also, aside from maybe a courthouse or federal building, the concealment charge in a restricted area usually isn't pursued if there was a separate violent crime committed because it's a lesser included misdemeanor to a felony charge. The DA's office typically ignores it. Even still, violent crime offenders using firearms are overwhelmingly already felons, minors, in possession of a firearm they know to be stolen, or using one they don't own with the intent of ditching or selling it after the crime. One way or the other it's far less often to find a legal gun owner committing a gun crime.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
oh...and when NYI says "day-to-day" killings I think Chicago, Detroit and DC.

I kind of doubt those guns are, generally speaking, registered and licensed.
That's the crux...we're talking about restricting, licensing and registering...things lawful people do. Not things a criminal give two shits about.


I'm catching up on the thread, but responding as I go, so excuse me if my points are made in later responses.

Yes, this is what I was speaking of (day-to-day)

Thousands of rounds of ammo doesn't really raise a red flag. At any given day on the range, I can easily go through 100-200 rounds (more, if I have the inclination). Buying ammo in bulk makes sense, especially for someone like me.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
And to Cross and his whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people" theme, why then is the US the most violent industrialed country in the world by far (outside of Mexico and Estonia)? A car can be used to kill, but it also can be used to get from point A to point B. Last time I checked that was even a car's main purpose. A gun can't get you from point A to point B, it can't even help you make a salad like a knife can. So it's completely disingenuous to make an argument that guns are in the same category as cars, knives, tire-irons, icepicks, baseball bats, or whatever else CAN be used to kill.


In 1998, guns killed 30,000 people, while vehicles killed 41,000.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
I'm sure people have fun with hand grenades and dynamite, too. Watching it explode and shit. There's a reason why THAT shit is illegal. Just because something can be used for fun and recreation doesn't mean it should be legal; especially not easy to get your hands on.


Dynamite is legal, you just need a reason to use it...and depending on the state I bet you can legally buy grenades.

By your definition, a Lamborghini should be illegal. It disproportionately kills its owners and people around it and it serves no purpose other than recreation.

Hand grenades are highly illegal (ones that can still be used, anyway).

And you're comparing something designed to kill others to something designed for every day life.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Also, if I'm going to go postal in a movie theater, I'm not using a car. Car related deaths are almost always accidents or drinking and driving (which is sort of an accident but alcohol is involved there). The gun related deaths? I would say a majority would be murder.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
A gun is a tool just like any of those objects you named.
It's not a device designed for "murdering humans".

You can use it to scare away a bear, to hunt for your dinner, to open a lock, for recreational target shooting et. etc. etc.

You honestly want to tell me it's in the same category? And "open a lock"? come on. Your list of what a gun can do should basically read : 1.kill someone 2.scare someone into thinking they'll be killed 3.practice killing someone

Target shooting?
Stress relief?
Protecting a family?

Those aren't things a gun can do?

If you need an AR-15 to protect your family you're a little paranoid. Why not grab a tank while you're at it.
Stress relief? Listen to music, play a sport, eat something, sleep. Alternatives to going Rambo.
Target shooting? Paintball guns, BB guns, dart gun, darts, etc. Alternatives to going Rambo.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:37 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
2. An AR-15 is basically a semi automatic M-16. It's used by American armed forces, and does a hell of a lot more damage than a pistol or a hunting rifle and can be shot a lot faster, especially since he had an ammo drum. Besides, what are you going to do with a semi automatic assault rifle other than collect guns? Go hunting with it? Should I grab my machine gun and go hunting for moose?


This is pretty ignorant.

1. An M-16 is a semi-automatic M-16. Its greatest firing rate is 3 round burst.
2. I disagree that it does more damage than a pistol or hunting rifle; those both depend on scenario. A .45 in close quarters may be more manageable than a M-16, and at longer ranges, I'd take a hunting rifle any day (larger caliber, better accuracy, longer lead time before people can get to me).
3. Maybe it doesn't tickle your fancy, but many people find shooting genuinely FUN. I have a blast every time I shoot. I also like the marksmanship challenges provided by shooting.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:37 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Also, if I'm going to go postal in a movie theater, I'm not using a car.

Me neither.... doesn't mean I'd use a gun.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Also to clarify, I'm all for having a pistol in your house to protect your family, but you should need to have a lot of shit to go through before obtaining that gun. IMO, people shouldn't have access to AR-15s though. Or any other assault rifle.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:40 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Also to clarify, I'm all for having a pistol in your house to protect your family, but you should need to have a lot of shit to go through before obtaining that gun. IMO, people shouldn't have access to AR-15s though. Or any other assault rifle.

Having a pistol in your home is a shitton more dangerous than an assault rifle.

Pistol owners that keep them for protection typically keep them loaded. My AR? Not loaded until I get to the range. Bullets aren't even in the fucking magazine.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:42 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
2. An AR-15 is basically a semi automatic M-16. It's used by American armed forces, and does a hell of a lot more damage than a pistol or a hunting rifle and can be shot a lot faster, especially since he had an ammo drum. Besides, what are you going to do with a semi automatic assault rifle other than collect guns? Go hunting with it? Should I grab my machine gun and go hunting for moose?


This is pretty ignorant.

1. An M-16 is a semi-automatic M-16. Its greatest firing rate is 3 round burst.
2. I disagree that it does more damage than a pistol or hunting rifle; those both depend on scenario. A .45 in close quarters may be more manageable than a M-16, and at longer ranges, I'd take a hunting rifle any day (larger caliber, better accuracy, longer lead time before people can get to me).
3. Maybe it doesn't tickle your fancy, but many people find shooting genuinely FUN. I have a blast every time I shoot. I also like the marksmanship challenges provided by shooting.

1. An M-16 can be fully automatic or semi automatic. The AR-15 is a semi auto version.
2. I wouldn't see him downing as many people with a hunting rifle or a pistol. There's a reason why hunting rifles and pistols aren't exactly prime weapons in the military (well, pistols are secondaries I would guess) and the AR-15 is.
3.As I said, I would find throwing a grenade to be a hoot, but it's illegal. For a good reason.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:42 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Also to clarify, I'm all for having a pistol in your house to protect your family, but you should need to have a lot of shit to go through before obtaining that gun. IMO, people shouldn't have access to AR-15s though. Or any other assault rifle.

Having a pistol in your home is a shitton more dangerous than an assault rifle.

Pistol owners that keep them for protection typically keep them loaded. My AR? Not loaded until I get to the range. Bullets aren't even in the fucking magazine.

A homicidal maniac would have an AR-15 loaded...

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:43 pm 
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[quote="Skyline_BNR34"
Target shooting?
Stress relief?
Protecting a family?

Those aren't things a gun can do?[/quote]
You can shoot targets on a video game.
Anything from a drink to a barbell to a hammer to a penis can relieve stress.
Not only a gun can protect a family.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:46 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
1. An M-16 can be fully automatic or semi automatic. The AR-15 is a semi auto version.
2. I wouldn't see him downing as many people with a hunting rifle or a pistol. There's a reason why hunting rifles and pistols aren't exactly prime weapons in the military (well, pistols are secondaries I would guess) and the AR-15 is.
3.As I said, I would find throwing a grenade to be a hoot, but it's illegal. For a good reason.


1. NO THE FUCK IT CAN'T. An M-4 can be fully automatic. The only time a M-16 is fully automatic is when the sear gets worn down, and that is a DEFECT, not design.
2. The military doesn't intend to shoot people in a movie theater. When we go into houses, we carry shotguns.
3. Where the fuck did grenades come into this?

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Target shooting?
Stress relief?
Protecting a family?

Those aren't things a gun can do?

You can shoot targets on a video game.
Anything from a drink to a barbell to a hammer to a penis can relieve stress.
Not only a gun can protect a family.

Stuuuuu, you're more educated than to make arguments like this. You're smart enough to know different strokes for different folks...

Shooting targets on a video game? Please, you have to come up with a better analogy/alternative.
Sure, let's drink to relieve stress. Then, we might go drive.

Tell me a viable alternative to protecting your family. Tell me something that is equal to or better than a gun.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:56 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
1. An M-16 can be fully automatic or semi automatic. The AR-15 is a semi auto version.
2. I wouldn't see him downing as many people with a hunting rifle or a pistol. There's a reason why hunting rifles and pistols aren't exactly prime weapons in the military (well, pistols are secondaries I would guess) and the AR-15 is.
3.As I said, I would find throwing a grenade to be a hoot, but it's illegal. For a good reason.


1. NO THE FUCK IT CAN'T. An M-4 can be fully automatic. The only time a M-16 is fully automatic is when the sear gets worn down, and that is a DEFECT, not design.
2. The military doesn't intend to shoot people in a movie theater. When we go into houses, we carry shotguns.
3. Where the fuck did grenades come into this?

1. Um, Wikipedia says the M-16 CAN be used for fully automatic fire. If that's wrong, go change it.
2. A movie theater is pretty wide open. My point being, a pistol/hunting rifle is not as dangerous.
3. See my other posts.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:00 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
1. An M-16 can be fully automatic or semi automatic. The AR-15 is a semi auto version.
2. I wouldn't see him downing as many people with a hunting rifle or a pistol. There's a reason why hunting rifles and pistols aren't exactly prime weapons in the military (well, pistols are secondaries I would guess) and the AR-15 is.
3.As I said, I would find throwing a grenade to be a hoot, but it's illegal. For a good reason.


1. NO THE FUCK IT CAN'T. An M-4 can be fully automatic. The only time a M-16 is fully automatic is when the sear gets worn down, and that is a DEFECT, not design.
2. The military doesn't intend to shoot people in a movie theater. When we go into houses, we carry shotguns.
3. Where the fuck did grenades come into this?

1. Um, Wikipedia says the M-16 CAN be used for fully automatic fire. If that's wrong, go change it.
2. A movie theater is pretty wide open. My point being, a pistol/hunting rifle is not as dangerous.
3. See my other posts.


The M-16 that was used in Vietnam, yeah. Nothing in the last 30 years. I don't care to change it, I don't get all of my facts from wikipedia...some are from life experience.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:14 pm 
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My bad I looked up facts. I'll make sure next time I spew random shit without checking the validity of my comment.

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