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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:42 pm 
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It's not accurate, just the same as the 1960s research that showed pot killed moneys isn't accurate.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:17 am 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Hand grenades are highly illegal (ones that can still be used, anyway).

And you're comparing something designed to kill others to something designed for every day life.

Uh you're the one who brought up grenades...as an extreme example in support of your argument.

and, it looks like it's a state by state issue.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/re ... d-grenades

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:49 am 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Target shooting?
Stress relief?
Protecting a family?

Those aren't things a gun can do?

You can shoot targets on a video game.
Anything from a drink to a barbell to a hammer to a penis can relieve stress.
Not only a gun can protect a family.

Stuuuuu, you're more educated than to make arguments like this. You're smart enough to know different strokes for different folks...

Shooting targets on a video game? Please, you have to come up with a better analogy/alternative.
Sure, let's drink to relieve stress. Then, we might go drive.

Tell me a viable alternative to protecting your family. Tell me something that is equal to or better than a gun.

Sure, a gun can protect a family. It can also cause one family member to kill another. As far as the drinking comment, my point is that anything can relieve stress if you enjoy it. It's not like a gun has some special stress-relieving quality.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:55 am 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Sure, a gun can protect a family. It can also cause one family member to kill another. As far as the drinking comment, my point is that anything can relieve stress if you enjoy it. It's not like a gun has some special stress-relieving quality.


Maybe not to you.... are you really going to be that narrow minded that you want to argue this point?

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:01 pm 
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How is it narrow-minded to point out that stress relief not anything special to a gun? You can relieve stress by exercising, listening to music, tearing down a wall, whatever. Maybe free-basing coke is a big stress relief, but that still doesn't take away the fact it's dangerous.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
How is it narrow-minded to point out that stress relief not anything special to a gun? You can relieve stress by exercising, listening to music, tearing down a wall, whatever. Maybe free-basing coke is a big stress relief, but that still doesn't take away the fact it's dangerous.

Some people may find driving 100mph as a stress relief. One could argue that the simple action of riding a motorcycle presents an inherent danger to others because of their lack of visibility.

I don't have any spare walls to tear down.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:55 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
How is it narrow-minded to point out that stress relief not anything special to a gun? You can relieve stress by exercising, listening to music, tearing down a wall, whatever. Maybe free-basing coke is a big stress relief, but that still doesn't take away the fact it's dangerous.

Some people may find driving 100mph as a stress relief. One could argue that the simple action of riding a motorcycle presents an inherent danger to others because of their lack of visibility.

I don't have any spare walls to tear down.

You're almost making my point for me. Yes, driving 100mph could be called a stress relief to some, but it's still not a good idea. Similarly shooting a gun might be a stress relief, but might not be the best idea.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:58 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Also to clarify, I'm all for having a pistol in your house to protect your family, but you should need to have a lot of shit to go through before obtaining that gun. IMO, people shouldn't have access to AR-15s though. Or any other assault rifle.

Why not, some hunting rifles are far more dangerous than an assault rifle, should people not be allowed to own these high powered rifles either?

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PatGreen
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:20 pm 
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It depends what you mean by dangerous. If you mean single shot killing capacity then yes almost every hunting rifle and shotgun are more deadly than an ar15 and an m16. If you're talking about overall potential for damage, any large clip semi auto or auto will be more dangerous because of the spray effect. Shooting 30 rounds is always more dangerous than shooting 2 to 8 rounds, so long as it's bigger than a pellet gun


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Also to clarify, I'm all for having a pistol in your house to protect your family, but you should need to have a lot of shit to go through before obtaining that gun. IMO, people shouldn't have access to AR-15s though. Or any other assault rifle.

Why not, some hunting rifles are far more dangerous than an assault rifle, should people not be allowed to own these high powered rifles either?

I've been over this. An AR-15 is far more dangerous than any hunting rifle. There's a reason it's used in the military and there's a reason he used an assault rifle to gun multiple people down and not a hunting rifle (which would've probably been easier to obtain).

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:00 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
I've been over this. An AR-15 is far more dangerous than any hunting rifle.



How so? There are plenty of large caliber semi-auto hunting rifles, and i'm sure you could find some large magazines for them. At that point the only difference is a 'tactical' stock, some rails, and....well, nothing. Saying it's 'far more dangerous than any hunting rifle' is utterly baseless.

In fact, given the problems often associated with the absurdly large magazines (failure to load the chamber) presumably attractive to people wanting to cause mayhem with the AR-15, the case could be made that because of higher failure rates, a guy using an AR-15 in this situation will be LESS dangerous than if he had a 'hunting' rifle.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:17 pm 
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You get a lot more shots off with an AR-15. Murder with an AR-15 is a lot quicker, you get more bullets off, and you can down more people (as the Colorado shooting shows). Also noticed, his gun DID jam, and he still killed many people. AR-15 is designed for use on the battlefield, not for use of civilians. The Colorado shooting, again, shows why I think that.

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:37 pm 
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No, you do not 'get a lot more shots off with an AR-15'. Now you're just talking out your ass. As far as speed goes, semi auto is semi auto. It uses spring action and blowback from the explosion in the shell to eject the spent shell and reload the chamber, you cant do that 'slowly', or you'll not be able to pull a new round out of the magazine.

An AR-15 just 'looks' more deadly. I'll bet most of the damage was done with the shotgun. Hell...one loaded shotgun (say 7 rounds), containing 12 guage shot (so, 12 X 7 = 84) has almost as many 'bullets' as the 100 round AR-15.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:41 pm 
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YankeeInRaleigh wrote:
An AR-15 just 'looks' more deadly. I'll bet most of the damage was done with the shotgun. Hell...one loaded shotgun (say 7 rounds), containing 12 guage shot (so, 12 X 7 = 84) has almost as many 'bullets' as the 100 round AR-15.


Not to mention a spread of about a dinner plate, as opposed to that of a BIC pen.

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:47 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
YankeeInRaleigh wrote:
An AR-15 just 'looks' more deadly. I'll bet most of the damage was done with the shotgun. Hell...one loaded shotgun (say 7 rounds), containing 12 guage shot (so, 12 X 7 = 84) has almost as many 'bullets' as the 100 round AR-15.


Not to mention a spread of about a dinner plate, as opposed to that of a BIC pen.


Yeah. ya know, I wonder what barrel length he went with. If that was me i'd definitely go sawed off, you're so close, might as well get a better spread.


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:54 pm 
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Yankee is right since semi-auto provides the same speed regardless of firearm. The only speed advantage is from not having to change magazines as often, so there is a small advantage in that regard. A hunting rifle or pistol though, can be easily modified with high capacity magazines. There really is nothing to make the AR-15 more dangerous than another firearm if the user knows what to do.

FWIW, if I really wanted to go on a rampage, I would strap up with multiple pistols with a careful selection of ammunition depending on the setting. A pistol round can actually penetrate a target more than a .223 round, which is meant to fragment upon contact. A pistol is more user friendly in close quarters, lighter and better at close contact. It's easy to carry multiple loaded pistol mags as well. In fact going back to my earlier post, I would prefer a shot at distance on a suspect using a pistol, because I'll almost be gauranteed to die with multiple contact shots if I choose to jump him and shoot him from up close.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:01 pm 
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If a hunting rifle is as dangerous as an assault rifle, that shit should be illegal too.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:29 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
If a hunting rifle is as dangerous as an assault rifle, that shit should be illegal too.


You need to define dangerous.
Most hunting rifles are "powerful" because they're high velocity and the rounds have large mass...some handguns are powerful because they're low velocity, large mass.
And just as a point of reference, you'd have a hard time taking down an elk with a bolt action .22....unless we should outlaw hunting too.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:39 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
BlueandYellow wrote:
Also to clarify, I'm all for having a pistol in your house to protect your family, but you should need to have a lot of shit to go through before obtaining that gun. IMO, people shouldn't have access to AR-15s though. Or any other assault rifle.

Why not, some hunting rifles are far more dangerous than an assault rifle, should people not be allowed to own these high powered rifles either?

I've been over this. An AR-15 is far more dangerous than any hunting rifle. There's a reason it's used in the military and there's a reason he used an assault rifle to gun multiple people down and not a hunting rifle (which would've probably been easier to obtain).

A .45 hollow point bullet from the semi-auto pistol to me is a far more dangerous round than any AR-15 round is, yet you still agree with having handguns legal. At the distance he shot at, a .45 round should do more damage to someone. Especially since the 5.56 mm round would not have had time to start tumbling at that distance.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:02 pm 
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I need to clarify myself here (obviously).


If you have a pistol in your house, obtained through a permit, gun safety class etc etc etc, that's fine with me. It should be difficult and a long procedure to get your hand on a hand gun, and I think only hand guns not as powerful as an AR-15. (I don't think you should have a gun that could easily kill a mass of people, like the man did with the AR-15).

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