Well the Taliban were already in control until we showed up.
So yeah, it was either us taking over by force and installing a government or the Taliban.

I'm not arguing anything about Iraq...but we went into Afghanistan specifically because it was a breeding ground of Islamic extremism.

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Absolutely why we went to Afghanistan. But the terrorist camps there are gone, and the Madras system in Pakistan that fed those camps is still there. I don't doubt our reasons for going to Afghanistan, but I do doubt the effectiveness of our operation.

...and if Pakistan didn't have nukes I bet you we'd be all up in there too and I'd fully support it. (no wonder Iran and the DPRK want nukes so badly)
Hell, there's a reason Osama was hiding there.

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Well I have to think that in a world where nation-states matter less and less (If we went into Pakistan, radicals could then slip into Iran, then Iraq and Syria, and so on...) that there really isn't mcuh hope of defeating violence by means of war. It truly is fighting fire with fire, and because of the religious bent to the violence that it is impossible to solve the problem by obliterating any one country. We're using outdated nation-state-based and war-based modes of problem-solving.

haha, just saw that uncle Ruslan clip, awesome. Although I felt pretty bad for him, he was clearly very anguished about the whole thing. That thing he said at the end, about how he wishes he could kneel before every injured person to make SOME sort of apology for his whole community (paraphrasing) really struck a chord. Imagine being him or the father, having your whole chechyn identity connected to this event. Shitty.

Agreed. And that goes with the themes I've been trying to talk about. It's not only the whole Chechyn identity, it's the whole Muslim identity of every Chechyn Muslim, and perhaps by extension, every American Muslim who must feel some sense of guilt by association.

So we just give up?
Because the radicalized sort of people we're fighting have an idea of victory that includes the whole world being Muslim either by force, choice or death.

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I agree with his and your sentiment, but frankly the only time I hear anything about Chechnya, it involves Muslims and terror and the Russian government laying the smack down.
It's not like this incident suddenly put them in a bad light.

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Just because that's all you hear doesn't mean that's all there is to Chechnia. The media doesn't tend to concentrate on good news very much, and when it does, it's usually about the local foodbank or something. Not much coverage on the kindness and small victories of people halfway around the world.

Of course not. Instead, we show them that just like we can't change them through violence, they can't change us through violence. I'm not suggesting we just let people that do these things get away. Obviously you go after them like the authorities are doing. But you don't let that affect how you view Chechens or Muslims or whoever, because that reinforces biases on all sides. You build consensus and look for the support of others in these other communities to condemn these violent acts (like uncle Ruslan). And you build from that consensus rather than from a place of disagreement.

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

This quote is from another uncle:

"
When asked what he thought might have motivated the attacks that his nephews are accused of carrying out, Tsarni suggested it was not about ideology.

“The only thing I see as being behind this is: being losers,” he said. “Not being able to settle and thereby hating everyone who did.”



Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/uncle-of-fu ... z2QwsH3S4x

Sexual frustration is a bitch (and she's not putting out).

I hope they get this guy alive. I just want him to explain why. What happened? Apparently he (the younger brother) was a well-known, well-liked, intelligent kid (who just got his American citizenship) with a bright future, and none of his friends had any reason to believe he was dangerous, or politically or religiously extreme in any way. If he’s dead, we may never know.

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This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Emerson

It's been reported he converted his girlfriend to Islam, so frankly that's his own effing fault


Also, the FBI isn't having a good track record with these things
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... years-ago/

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Because it's impossible that he developed these ideologies and extremist thoughts in the past 730 days....smh

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Think about it this way
Russia tell us "hey, you should watch this guy, he's sketchy"
We send over the FBI to talk to him and his mother and who knows else on multiple occasions.
In 2012, with his US passport, he spends several months in Russia.
in 2013 he sets off a bomb.


Wouldn't you think the extended stay in Russia may warrant a follow-up?
I've heard through several news outlets that there are rumblings inside the FBI wondering how they missed this.

My track record comment is related to this:


3 mass casualty events carried out by radical Islamic Americans, on US soil and the FBI was tipped off to all of them in advance.

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Cross,
Only the older brother went to Russia. He was not a US citizen, and therefore never had a US passport.

If you're going to try to paint this picture of an incompetent FBI, and imminent danger around every corner from radical Muslims, then at least try to get your facts straight.

Just because the FBI spoke to the older brother, and the brothers were able to execute this plot, does not mean there was necessarily a failure on the part of the FBI. There is no crime in buying a pressure cooker, BB's and nails. There's no crime in buying the black powder, and there's not even any crime in the brothers buying the guns they used to shoot at, injure and kill policemen. At this point we have no reason to believe this plot was discussed or hinted at in any way, shape or form to anyone other than amongst the brothers themselves. With such a void of information, I'm very curious how you are so sure that the FBI has failed. Oh yeah, 'you heard it through various news outlets'.

So the FBI was tipped off in the 3 cases you mentioned, and they pursued each tip. How exactly do you feel they could have kept these 3 tragedies from happening? You are a Libertarian, so I shouldn't have to tell you that liberty is a core value here in the US. For that reason the FBI cannot detain people just because they are worried that someone might be thinking about doing something bad.

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This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Emerson

Passport or not, the FBI was aware of his trip. That's my point.
And I'm not particularly trying to pain the FBI as incompetent, the article I cited is.
However I believe the reports about the internal investigations and soul searching going on and that's not me questioning their methods and effectiveness, it's them doing it.

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In some more disappointing news, it looks like dipshit #2 has the right to remain silent whether we give him his Miranda rights or not

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ounds.html

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