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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:48 am 
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Mr. Natural wrote:
Looks like the Bills are going to the taxpayers again to pay for the latest upgrades on the Ralph. I love the Bills, but I hate when taxpayers are asked to foot the bill for a private company's overhead expenses.

$63 million in '97; $40-100 million this time around.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eag ... 87083.html


New York State takes in about $20M in direct tax revenue from the Buffalo Bills every year between income taxes on player salary,and ticket sales/concessions at the Ralph. This will increase in the next couple years, because the Bills will be required to spend more on player salary, bumping that number up. This doesn't account for the indirect tax revenues of merchandise sales, and other local commerce that directly stems from Bills games.

Over a 15 year lease, that's $300M in tax revenues in return for a $100M investment.

These are the kind of deals the state SHOULD be making. I'm not a fan of publicly financed stadiums in general, but if you're going to do it, almost guaranteed profit is the way to go.


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PatGreen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:55 am 
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yes, but when ralph dies and the team (potentially) moves, that sucks.

it'd be cool if he was 60, or we knew who was going to buy it.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:02 am 
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It's a valid point. However, that's a point that Erie County needs to bring up in lease negotiations. If the public entities are going to commit dollars based on future tax revenues, they have to have assurances that the team is going to be here to generate that revenue.

They can also get a stronger lease exit clause that recoups all that money should the team be sold and move.


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PatGreen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:04 am 
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they can bring up all of that- but do they have any leverage or bargaining chips? it seems to me that it's probably common knowledge that erie county needs the bills, not the other way around. no, they won't do well in toronto, but i don't think there isn't a city who would support them economically just as well, probably better, than we do.


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backthatSASSup
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:20 pm 
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I was kinda thinking about this today, and the reason I think Ralph is telling his kids to wait until after he dies to sell the team is because if he were to sell the team today, he would have to pay a shitload in capital gains taxes and then in addition to that, he would have to pay a lot of estate tax when he transfers the money to his kids. If he holds onto the team until he dies, the family would receive the benefit of the team stepping up to fair market value, thus when they sell the team, they wouldn't have to pay a huge gains tax and only the estate tax. I think he only had to pay a franchise fee to start the team and now the team is worth millions. Could be significant tax savings.

Hopefully I didn't just confuse anyone. :lol: If you're baffled, I'll try to explain it better.

One just has to hope that they'll sell to a person or group who wants to keep the team here.


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PatGreen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:26 pm 
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backthatSASSup wrote:
I was kinda thinking about this today, and the reason I think Ralph is telling his kids to wait until after he dies to sell the team is because if he were to sell the team today, he would have to pay a shitload in capital gains taxes and then in addition to that, he would have to pay a lot of estate tax when he transfers the money to his kids. If he holds onto the team until he dies, the family would receive the benefit of the team stepping up to fair market value, thus when they sell the team, they wouldn't have to pay a huge gains tax and only the estate tax. I think he only had to pay a franchise fee to start the team and now the team is worth millions. Could be significant tax savings.

Hopefully I didn't just confuse anyone. :lol: If you're baffled, I'll try to explain it better.

One just has to hope that they'll sell to a person or group who wants to keep the team here.

don't forget the death tax...that is supposedly a pretty exorbitant sum, and big part of the reason his kids don't want it.


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backthatSASSup
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:34 pm 
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PatGreen wrote:
backthatSASSup wrote:
I was kinda thinking about this today, and the reason I think Ralph is telling his kids to wait until after he dies to sell the team is because if he were to sell the team today, he would have to pay a shitload in capital gains taxes and then in addition to that, he would have to pay a lot of estate tax when he transfers the money to his kids. If he holds onto the team until he dies, the family would receive the benefit of the team stepping up to fair market value, thus when they sell the team, they wouldn't have to pay a huge gains tax and only the estate tax. I think he only had to pay a franchise fee to start the team and now the team is worth millions. Could be significant tax savings.

Hopefully I didn't just confuse anyone. :lol: If you're baffled, I'll try to explain it better.

One just has to hope that they'll sell to a person or group who wants to keep the team here.

don't forget the death tax...that is supposedly a pretty exorbitant sum, and big part of the reason his kids don't want it.


I'm pretty sure estate tax and death tax are interchangeable. Congress capped that at 35% for this year, I believe (it used to be 55%, eeks!) and New York state, of course, has an estate tax as well. Not sure what that is.

Selling the team now, though, will be significantly more costly as they will have to recognize a gain on the sale. He paid something like $25,000 for the franchise fee and now the team is worth $799,000,000 according to Forbes in 2010. :shock:

At least if he transfers the team to his kids when they die, when the sell the Bills they won't have to recognize that large gain because basis would jump up to FMV.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:54 pm 
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"Death tax" is simply a term for inheritance tax that is used for spin.


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backthatSASSup
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
"Death tax" is simply a term for inheritance tax that is used for spin.


New York doesn't have an inheritance tax, only estate tax. Federal government only has estate tax as well. This in the context of the US, because some countries call what we call our estate tax their inheritance tax. It's confusing. lol

Basically, in NY and the US, the estate itself pays the tax, not the person who receives the inheritance.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:34 pm 
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backthatSASSup wrote:
Squanto wrote:
"Death tax" is simply a term for inheritance tax that is used for spin.


New York doesn't have an inheritance tax, only estate tax. Federal government only has estate tax as well. This in the context of the US, because some countries call what we call our estate tax their inheritance tax. It's confusing. lol

Basically, in NY and the US, the estate itself pays the tax, not the person who receives the inheritance.

Yup, but that's what they call the death tax/inheritance tax. I guess a lot of people think it's a double tax since any money in the estate has already been taxed as income or capital gains or whatever. Of course it was the income or capital gain of another person...


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Mr. Natural
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
New York State takes in about $20M in direct tax revenue from the Buffalo Bills every year between income taxes on player salary,and ticket sales/concessions at the Ralph. This will increase in the next couple years, because the Bills will be required to spend more on player salary, bumping that number up. This doesn't account for the indirect tax revenues of merchandise sales, and other local commerce that directly stems from Bills games.

Over a 15 year lease, that's $300M in tax revenues in return for a $100M investment.

These are the kind of deals the state SHOULD be making. I'm not a fan of publicly financed stadiums in general, but if you're going to do it, almost guaranteed profit is the way to go.


backthatSASSup wrote:
I was kinda thinking about this today, and the reason I think Ralph is telling his kids to wait until after he dies to sell the team is because if he were to sell the team today, he would have to pay a shitload in capital gains taxes and then in addition to that, he would have to pay a lot of estate tax when he transfers the money to his kids. If he holds onto the team until he dies, the family would receive the benefit of the team stepping up to fair market value, thus when they sell the team, they wouldn't have to pay a huge gains tax and only the estate tax. I think he only had to pay a franchise fee to start the team and now the team is worth millions. Could be significant tax savings.


"I got information--new shit has come to light..."
- The Dude

You guys are wicked smart on this topic. Now that I'm privy to all the new shit, I'll have to ruminate on it.

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Mr. Natural
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Dolphins picked up J.P. Losman.

I thought I had a snarky comment to make, but I never really disliked Losman, so....

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Mr. Natural wrote:
Dolphins picked up J.P. Losman.

I thought I had a snarky comment to make, but I never really disliked Losman, so....

Fuck, I hate using this one now that he's on my team, but there's a reason he's not named JP Winman.


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Mr. Natural
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:35 pm 
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It is the end of October and the Bills (5-2) have half as many losses as the Sabres (6-4).

Hard to figure.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Finally won the Toronto game.

But 9 sacks, I wish I would have watched this game today.

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No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

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As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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backthatSASSup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:50 am 
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Bills defense got me 25 points this week in fantasy. They have been tearing it up in terms of fantasy points.

Wow, that sounds so fucking weird to say. The Bills defense actually being a good fantasy pick up. Imagine that. :lol:


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Mr. Natural
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Maybe we need to change the name of this thread to, "Not getting sucked in by the SABRES," 'cause I so got sucked in by the excitement and the hype of the 2011-2012 Sabres. It was the Bills who I figured would be tanking by this time of year.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Mr. Natural wrote:
Maybe we need to change the name of this thread to, "Not getting sucked in by the SABRES," 'cause I so got sucked in by the excitement and the hype of the 2011-2012 Sabres. It was the Bills who I figured would be tanking by this time of year.

At least with the present title you know it's about the Bills. How about changing it to "Buffalo Bills 2011 season"?


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backthatSASSup
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:30 pm 
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I like the thread title. We very well could be heartbroken by the end of the season even still. :lol:


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Mr. Natural
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:02 pm 
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backthatSASSup wrote:
I like the thread title. We very well could be heartbroken by the end of the season even still. :lol:

My expectations have gone up with each victory, so that I now look forward to a playoff appearance, at the least. I certainly didn't come close to having that hope at the start of the season.

Sort of reverse with the Sabres. I got caught up in the hype of the new owner and his drive for a Cup, so that I expected the Sabres to be one of the top three or four teams in the NHL right out of the starting gate.

I was being unrealistic. They still have a ways to go before they find their rhythm.

The Bills, on the other hand, just keep on truckin' along in a fine groove.

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