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Sabresfansince1980
 Post subject: Is Parise a possibility?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:00 pm 
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There's a question mark about the new CBA and cap limit. I would take the chance of signing Parise and having to shed salary, but likely the cap limit gets raised once again. Regier can work another long term deal like Ehrhoff's and keep Parise's cap hit at about 6 mil at most. Kaleta and Sulzer are not re-signed and estimating Ennis at a 2.6 mil cap hit, and for an overall cap hit of 68 mil they'd have...

Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Parise-Hodgson-Vanek
Leino-Roy-Pominville
Gerbe-McCormick-Tropp
Ellis

Leopold-Myers
Ehrhoff-Sekera
McNabb-Regehr
Weber

Miller-Enroth

Other minor tweaks to this line-up would be to re-sign Sulzer and trade Weber or keep McNabb down, also re-sign Kaleta and keep Tropp down. Either way the team cap hit would remain roughly the same.

If they can trade up and draft a center that can play asap, then trade Roy and fitting Parise in is actually pretty easy. If the cap limit stays the same and/or a top center is not drafted that can play asap, then trading soon-to-be UFAs Leopold or Regehr (if he waives his NTC) are the next logical moves considering that Brennan or McNabb could be capable (but not equal) replacements.

So I really don't see a big problem in going after Parise, it's just a matter of whether he'd actually want to play for Buffalo. Let's hope Stafford and Parise are good enough buddies.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:17 pm 
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It's only a possibility to me if Roy gets traded away before or during the draft. Otherwise it's really hard to fit him in, one thing though is if you sign Parise you may have the risk of losing Ennis or Hodgson on their next deal.

Hodgson is due next year, most likely not a huge deal yet unless he has a breakout year, but Ennis won't sign a 2.8 million deal for more than say 2-3 years. Then he will be due 5+ million if he stays on pace from the last 15 games.

At that point you also need to decide on both Pominville and Vanek too. Regher and Leopold come off the books next year to help fit Parise in but you would need to find some more D guys. Who knows if McNabb will be needing a raise or not.

It's possible to get him, even at 6 million per year, or a deal like Ehrhoff's would be awesome actually. I'm just thinking about the future, it'd be easy to sign him if you plan to dump Vanek in the future and free up the 7 million when he becomes a UFA. I think it'd be very hard to get him unless Roy and another higher cap hit get's moved, like Leopold.

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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:56 am 
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YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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jordano
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:12 am 
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I don't think he'll leave NJ. Why would he?

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Jammerz04
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:54 am 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
There's a question mark about the new CBA and cap limit. I would take the chance of signing Parise and having to shed salary, but likely the cap limit gets raised once again. Regier can work another long term deal like Ehrhoff's and keep Parise's cap hit at about 6 mil at most. Kaleta and Sulzer are not re-signed and estimating Ennis at a 2.6 mil cap hit, and for an overall cap hit of 68 mil they'd have...

Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Parise-Hodgson-Vanek
Leino-Roy-Pominville
Gerbe-McCormick-Tropp
Ellis

Leopold-Myers
Ehrhoff-Sekera
McNabb-Regehr
Weber

Miller-Enroth

Other minor tweaks to this line-up would be to re-sign Sulzer and trade Weber or keep McNabb down, also re-sign Kaleta and keep Tropp down. Either way the team cap hit would remain roughly the same.

If they can trade up and draft a center that can play asap, then trade Roy and fitting Parise in is actually pretty easy. If the cap limit stays the same and/or a top center is not drafted that can play asap, then trading soon-to-be UFAs Leopold or Regehr (if he waives his NTC) are the next logical moves considering that Brennan or McNabb could be capable (but not equal) replacements.

So I really don't see a big problem in going after Parise, it's just a matter of whether he'd actually want to play for Buffalo. Let's hope Stafford and Parise are good enough buddies.


Why would you want to pay 5 Mill a season to Roy to be a 3rd line center? Guys gotta go IMO. I think Jarret Stoll can bring us some consistency as a center offensively and defensively.

Sulzer is a MUST resign no if ands or buts about it. Either Sekera or Leopold should be traded. We have a team full of these types of players. I'd keep Leopold since he does play offensive and defensive hockey pretty well and doesn't commit the huge turnovers that Sekera does night in night out. Kaleta should be let go. But he's one of Lindy's hard on's so I'm sure he'll get a 3 year extension. I think we need an enforcer on this team that can fight and protect our stars and one guys comes to mind and that is George Parros.

Parise would be awesome to have but he wouldn't leave NJ unless a team makes an outrageous offer to him. I see the Islanders or the Panthers making a bid. I'm 99.9% sure he will test the UFA market but ultimately will end up back in NJ. Remember right now we oly have like 900,000 in cap space. Hecht and Boyes leaving will ultimately make room for Myers' new contract. So we won't be losing any cap unless of course we can trade Roy and one of Sekera and or Leopold.

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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:48 am 
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Jammerz04 wrote:
Why would you want to pay 5 Mill a season to Roy to be a 3rd line center? Guys gotta go IMO. I think Jarret Stoll can bring us some consistency as a center offensively and defensively.


It's only a 4 mil cap hit, and I already described trying to draft a top center that can play asap. Stoll wouldn't be bad, but he's going to be in the market for about 4 mil just like Roy, so you'd still be left with a 4 mil 3rd line center, but Stoll doesn't even have the history or potential of scoring 70 pts like Roy does.


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PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:11 pm 
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seriously, roy's as close to a point a game player as you can be over his career before this year. not to mention he has value defensively and on the PK. getting rid of Roy in a contract year is straight up dumb unless you are offered and immediate upgrade through trade.


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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:55 pm 
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PatGreen wrote:
getting rid of Roy in a contract year is straight up dumb unless you are offered and immediate upgrade through trade.

It's hard to find a center who's suckery is as bad as Roy, so upgrading should be a snap. I was looking through NHL.com stats, and the only guys you could consider worse than Roy are maybe Brodziak, and Talbot(and to be fair to those 2, they didn't have 60 giveaways, and they hit) . I didn't include guys with similar stats who had half as many PM. "Down year" isn't acceptable in Ruff's eyes. To quote him, "your stats are your stats", and I think he meant your latest stats, not what you may have done 2 years ago. Bottom line is Roy is(by stats) one of the worst centers in the game.


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Well to take that line of thinking totally literally, Crosby hasn't had a good season either.

We shouldn't be discounting the effects of returning from his thigh injury. I don't like his penchant for TOs or some attitude issues that appear to have merit. But he is still in the #25-35 range of centers in the game. If he was able to center one of three balanced scoring lines, rather than be forced as the "top" center, I expect another 65 pt season. He's bad at times, but not THAT bad. Keep him until Ennis and Hodgson have proven themselves, and another center is acquired that as well (unless he's the easiest player to trade and shed cap for a Parise signing). If the season is lost and there's nothing to be gained, then trade him at the deadline.


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PatGreen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:30 pm 
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i'm with 1980


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:40 pm 
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44 points in 80 games sucks. I highly doubt his thigh injury did much to make him suck that much ass, as he was consistently turning the puck over and hogging the puck his WHOLE season.

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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
Well to take that line of thinking totally literally, Crosby hasn't had a good season either.

We shouldn't be discounting the effects of returning from his thigh injury. I don't like his penchant for TOs or some attitude issues that appear to have merit. But he is still in the #25-35 range of centers in the game. If he was able to center one of three balanced scoring lines, rather than be forced as the "top" center, I expect another 65 pt season. He's bad at times, but not THAT bad.

How did you come to the conclusion he's 25-35???? I at least showed by stats why I believe he's basically a bag of shit, and now you proclaim he's a top center(25-35 puts him on the first line, because there's 30 teams), but you say he's "forced' to play as a top center? Want your cake AND eat it, too????? There's also no reason to believe he will return next reason, and score 65 pts. That's simply you being optimistic. The guy still got 19 minutes a night, and was tried with many different combinations, but next year, you think he's going to magically score 65 on the 3rd line? Playing with who, Leino and Gerbe?????????? I'm not trying to piss you off, but you're dreaming here. There was a point where I may have been ok with keeping him as a 3rd line center, but fuck that. I DON'T want to watch him turn it over all next season, and then blame the coaching after he lays an egg. I can't imagine management will want him around after shooting off his mouth anyways. He had his chance to prove it ON THE ICE, he failed, and then pointed fingers. Fuck him.

Can you elaborate on this please, "Well to take that line of thinking totally literally, Crosby hasn't had a good season either."? How could Crosby's stats show he hasn't had a good season????????????????????


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
Well to take that line of thinking totally literally, Crosby hasn't had a good season either.

Cherry picking this part, but 37 points in 22 games.

The games he played, he got points in.

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No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

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As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
Well to take that line of thinking totally literally, Crosby hasn't had a good season either.

Cherry picking this part, but 37 points in 22 games.

The games he played, he got points in.

Ya, I have no clue the point he was trying to make with that statement. Has Crosby ever had even a minor slump in his life?


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BagBoy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:33 pm 
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daz28 wrote:
I can't imagine management will want him around after shooting off his mouth anyways. He had his chance to prove it ON THE ICE, he failed, and then pointed fingers.

What is this shooting off his mouth and pointing fingers? I hadn't heard about this. Can you fill me in?

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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Roy didn't actually shoot his mouth off. The media was asking the same questions to everyone about if Lindy is too hard on the players. Roy had the same basic response, but said he didn't think it would be right to take criticism to the media. It was a general type of comment, not really pointed toward Ruff. Maybe he really feels that way but he didn't sound like a jerk when he said it.

Daz, you made the comment about stats are stats and they show how good you are, not what you did two years ago. Well, one year ago Roy had 35 pts in 35 games. But if "stats are stats" then 35 pts means he stunk, and the same logic could apply to Crosby this year. All I'm saying is you can't just look at stats as the bottom line. It wasn't that hard a comment to understand. FWIW, for 5 seasons after the lockout and before Roy got hurt last season, he averaged a rank of 23rd in pts by all centers. Going out on a limb and saying he would've finished with at least 65 pts last season if he played all year, and that would put him up a little higher. So yeah, after the injury and considering he may not be full speed again, it's more than safe to say he's in the 25-35 range.

This year he returned after a major injury, then had a hamstring injury before camp, then tweaked his shoulder twice during the season. If you expected him to reach 70 pts this season, YOU were dreaming, because obviously he's not Crosby and he also doesn't have Malkin to play with either. The last season or two, while Connolly failed to produce, Roy was by default the top center that other teams could focus on. I'm not calling Roy simply a 3rd line center now, but part of what could be three balanced lines that prevent other teams from focusing on any one line. And no, he wouldn't be playing with f-ing Gerbe, it would be the same line he played very well with for the last six weeks. In case you don't remember that was Leino working the boards like a maniac and Pominville doing his usual thing. That line was solid, and would look real good for a full 82.

Roy is not some centerpiece to a Cup team, but he's not shit either just because he only had 44 pts after a significant injury. Don't get me wrong or twist my words...I don't like the TOs either, but it doesn't mean he can't be of any use. Especially considering the two near rookies at center we're having to depend on next season.


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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:55 pm 
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BagBoy wrote:
daz28 wrote:
I can't imagine management will want him around after shooting off his mouth anyways. He had his chance to prove it ON THE ICE, he failed, and then pointed fingers.

What is this shooting off his mouth and pointing fingers? I hadn't heard about this. Can you fill me in?

He basically said Lindy was wrong telling the media the core(which he must have correctly identified as himself and a couple others) wasn't good enough. Well Derek, you had a shit season, and got called on it, so wah. I think the coach has every right to diagnose the problems, and report them to the media. It's called, ACCOUNTABILITY, Derek.

Ayways 1980, if you think he just had injury problems(which he took the easy way out, and claimed, unlike Vanek, who just said he wasn't good enough), and he'll bounce back from them next year, then fine. I just don't think that's going to happen(as I said, I was open to keeping him, but I've lost faith), and I don't want him playing ahead of Ennis or Coho. I see no room for him in this line-up, either. I want FES getting the bulk of the minutes, and Vanek and Pommers with Coho. That leaves Roy with Leino, and...???Gerbe(Tropp), and I don't see him putting up many points with that line getting limited minutes. Lastly, a shoulder doesn't stop you from back-checking. I'm done with Roy.

Strangely enough, it sounds like you're backing Leino, too. What exactly was his problem that he will be better next year? The guy is CLEARLY a mistake, even if he had a handful of decent games. I'd trade him in a heartbeat, too.

Roy and Leino out, and Parise in -YUUUPPPP.


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Jeez, well if I envision Ennis playing with Gerbe and Tropp I could say the same damn thing about him.

That's fine that "you're done" with Roy, I couldn't care less. It doesn't mean you stop trying to make the best with what you have. There aren't any top UFA centers available, and trading for one means paying through the nose and losing other players you want. That leaves the draft and a player that likely isn't an immediate impact, or making the best you can with Roy.

Now you want to further extrapolate and say I'm "backing Leino". Gimme a break. What if I said Ellis gives 100%...does that mean I think he should be given a 3 mil contract next summer? Maybe (probably) you didn't watch as many games as I did. If you watched a majority of games the last six weeks you'd simply agree that Leino worked the boards like a freakin maniac, instead of tryin to pick another argument.


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daz28
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
Jeez, well if I envision Ennis playing with Gerbe and Tropp I could say the same damn thing about him.

That's fine that "you're done" with Roy, I couldn't care less. It doesn't mean you stop trying to make the best with what you have. There aren't any top UFA centers available, and trading for one means paying through the nose and losing other players you want. That leaves the draft and a player that likely isn't an immediate impact, or making the best you can with Roy.

Now you want to further extrapolate and say I'm "backing Leino". Gimme a break. What if I said Ellis gives 100%...does that mean I think he should be given a 3 mil contract next summer? Maybe (probably) you didn't watch as many games as I did. If you watched a majority of games the last six weeks you'd simply agree that Leino worked the boards like a freakin maniac, instead of tryin to pick another argument.

You might be seeing Ennis playing with Topp and Gerbe if Roy stays, or worse yet, you'll see him back at LW. Iow, Roy is hurting the team when we "try to work with him"

I'm still confused, so you DO want Leino back, and expect him to be a "maniac", or you're just saying he gives 100% and is unlucky but still needs to go? You're good at trying to change discussion x into a discussion about player y without really analyzing either player either. Crosby has nothing to do with Roy, and Ellis has nothing to do with Leino. If you have a stance on a player, just state it. People on hf are calling Leino possibly the worst free agent signing ever, and you're saying he's a "maniac". Sorry if I assumed you were implying that was a good thing.

I will agree that we'd have to give something to acquire a center, but it would only be a 3rd line center. The Ducks got Cogliano for a 2nd, and I'll bet we could get that right back for Roy. I'm real sorry if me going over Roy's stats today, and realizing how ridiculously pitiful they were got you upset, but the little shit deserved to get publicly called out on them, whether he(or you) liked it or not.

Look, you want to imagine that Roy's injuries were the only reason he stunk. It's VERY possible he'll never be the same player again. Either way, the future is in Ennis and Hodgson, no way to even argue that. That leaves Roy on the 3rd line, like it or lump it, and he'll HAVE to play with the guys who also didn't make the top 6. You can dream about a top 9 forward bunch, that has but name one team that employs that successfully, and how with our cap situation it can happen You're the one who said, "ya gotta work with what ya got", well, Gerbe, Tropp and Leino is "what we got". The only prayer we have is you're right about the injury, and he returns to form, and that Leino's inner maniac arrives for game one, and remains all season. It's possible, but it's also possible(and far more likely) we get the same dogshit out of them we got this year. Why don't we make another prediction, and re-sign Boyes, so he can have a monster year next year. There's simply NO REASON to have faith in that.


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:53 pm 
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You're just being a straight up jerk now, making up shit that I didn't argue just to have a pissing match.

Do I want Leino? No, I want four lines full of Ryan Callahans, but since Regier has to deal in reality I expect Leino to not be very tradeable this summer, hence he'll be back. Just because he worked the boards like a maniac doesn't mean I think he's a maniac in general (like you want to pretend I'm saying), but I won't ignore the better parts of his game either. Is that simple enough or too confusing, requiring another bs strawman argument from you?

You think you went over Roy's stats and showed they're pitiful?? You objected to the thought that he's a top 25-35 center? Fact is he has ranked pretty well as I stated, and I even erred on the side of caution, because in 2005-06 he played LW. Take that season away and as a center he ranked 15th from 2006-07 to before his leg injury. One bad season on the rebound and you want to ditch him for a 2nd rd pick, after Gaustad and a 6th netted a 1st? Ridiculous.

Obviously Ennis and Hodgson are the future because one way or another Roy is gone when his contract is up anyway. That doesn't mean you just toss away Roy as a possible option when 1) those other two are not proven and 2) only McCormick and Ellis are left. You also fail to realize that there isn't a "1st" or "2nd" or "3rd" line. Whoever is going the best gets the most minutes under Ruff. And who the hell has ever said you can't roll three balanced scoring lines with a checking line? Why can't Buffalo use that set up? I just freakin spelled it out in the first post!

Go ahead and make more stupid fantom points about Boyes now.


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