Anyways, back on topic...i've been TRYING to think of this in some light which is favorable to the mosque and it's organizers. They must have chosen that date for SOME reason, and if it isnt malicious, it must be in the spirit of growth, forming tighter bonds across seemingly disparate belief systems, and reaching out to a community in some way. Right? I can only assume on their day of opening they'll have some gigantic greiving/remembering/praying day to honor the victims of muslim agression. Right?

I mean...otherwise these guys are complete fucking asshats who need to have their intestines ripped out through their mouths.

I don't think they could do anything to make it right, except, maybe,not making it at all.

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that is my point

That's just awesome right there

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mechaphil

I misunderstood ya, sorry.

theres a page on facebook called "i am against building a mosque in new york city.."

why?

i understand the sensitivity of building it at ground zero and opening it that day.

to be against building a building of worship because of an event that extremists orchestrated is downright ignorant. it would be like calling crosscheck a terrorist because timothy mcveigh blew up a building 15 years ago (example, i dunno if they really are similar in political views)...

im simply disgusted at peoples ignorance. and the saddest part of seeing this is the person who joined the page happened to be a girl i dated. i like to think i have low standards, but when it comes to this type shit, no.

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If they don't have a big rememberance, respect kind of thing on opening day I would be surprised. The American Muslim community by large hates the terrorists as much as we do and see it both as an attack on their adopted country and a black eye for their religion. i can only believe that they chose that day as a sybolic gesture that peace is the right way and only way. I hope I'm right.

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Fixed that for you.

Nope, I still can't think of a reason that justifies doing it on that day.

If they're staging the most heartfelt remembrance ceremony ever conceived and donating millions of dollars to the victims families it's still the wrong fucking day.

Do it on the 12th....or the 10th...it's not that hard.

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Hold my beer and watch this...

I don't normally involve myself in political threads, because honestly I think politics are stupid. However, I kind of have a question about this one. What if someone was building... I dunno, a church at ground zero on the same day? Would you still be up in arms about it? Or is it just because it's a mosque that you dislike this idea? If that's the case, I feel like that's pretty stupid if you ask me. I understand why people are upset about it, but if you took one but not the other, something doesn't match up there. I mean, it's not like these people who are building the mosque are in any way affiliated with the people responsible for 9/11, except for the fact that they claim the same religion (which both groups obviously practice their religion in completely different ways). Just a question I've been curious to ask for a while. It's just an innocent question. Please don't stone me.

I haven't heard a reason *why* they chose to build a mosque there, and *why* they chose it on that date.

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Well you obviously missed the point. Muslim extremists killed lots of Americans so by default all Muslims are secretly plotting to do us harm and it's our American duty to hate them and be guarded against their every move. Didn't you get the memo?

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That doesn't answer my question. Nor is it particularly relevant to my question, but I'll try to appease you. Here's a few links you can look at. Just some that I found through a quick perusing of google.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manh ... w4Q6hpvbQL

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/07/new.yo ... index.html

Sounds like they are trying to build a cultural bridge. They're reaching out to say, hey we're American's too and we don't particularly care for terrorists either. There were Muslims who were killed on 9/11 too. It's not as if they have no particular reason to do it. They aren't trying to shove it in our faces like HEY LOOK AT US WE'RE DOUCHEBAGS AND ARE BUILDING A MOSQUE BECAUSE DOUCHEBAGGERY IS FUN. They're trying to help things. They know how much Muslims are looked down upon just because they happen to be of the same faith as those who executed 9/11. So don't rip their heads off when they seem to be trying to genuinely make a better bond between themselves and everyone else.

So, I repeat my question again. If this was a church, not a mosque, would you be anywhere near as pissed?

No, I wouldn't be, if you want a simple answer. I decided not to answer your question initially because I figured you sort of already KNEW (based on most opinions here) what the answers would be.

The issue is that it's really NOT a well-received decision. If everyone in America could read two sentences of your response, I'm sure they'd be ok with it. But, as is the American way, we're going to hold the grudge and be pissed off.

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I feel that is is a lot more than Americans "holding a grudge and being pissed off." I certainly understand why people would be upset about this, and in some ways it's actually legitimate to be upset. If someone were to say (and I have seen a few quotes on this) that they believed that Ground Zero should be a burial place. That absolutely NOTHING should be build there, I would understand. They aren't exactly dragging race or religion into it at all, though there may be undertones of it. However, to blatantly say that you don't want a mosque there isn't holding a grudge; it's religious and potentially racial discrimination. So, a church can be built but not a mosque? All men are created equal, but some are more equal than others, eh?

this argument would hold any water at all if the people that wrecked the towers weren't using their religion as a sword and shield against our nation. if the crusades had a specific start day i wouldn't build a church in the middle east on that day. it's straight up insensitive and a little ridiculous.

if it was a bunch of people from different races and nationalities that just hated america, okay whatever.

That's very true, and I can see how their decision is ultimately not the best idea. However, they likely weren't doing this to rile people up. They probably picked 9/11 because they wanted to make a symbolic point. Thing is, it seems to have backfired on them, and now their receiving the exact kind of treatment they were originally trying to fix.

Another note I want to make. Yes, that is true that the terrorists were using their religion as a "sword and shield". And while technically they and other Muslims are part of the same religion, the practices are obviously very different. Terrorists clearly believe in a more violent means in which to practice their faith. The ones that want to build the mosque? Something tells me none of them have any desire to blow things up. Their religions may be called the same thing, but in most other aspects, they aren't nearly as alike. All the Muslims I know are very peaceful people, and I'd like to believe that is true for most of the Muslim population. It's like saying the Baptists of the Westboro Church, and other baptists around the globe all practice the same religion, when that isn't really true. Maybe you'll consider that kind of a stretch, but in my mind it isn't like terrorists are coming in here trying to build their out house of worship against us. It's pretty much a different "breed", if you will, of Muslims trying to reach out to their fellow Americans. At least, that's how I see it. However, I may very well be alone in that thinking.

you're not. sunnis vs shiites. but all that is moot.

they may not have done it to piss anyone off, but the fact is, people are pissed off, and all they have to do is open it A DIFFERENT DAY. they open it the 12th? no big deal. they open it the 10th? who cares?

but the 11th? a national remembrance day? i don't care if they open it on christmas, because that's a religious holiday. however distant their ties are to terrorism, they still have the tightest ties out of any other political group in the world. and they know it. and if they're trying to show american patriotism, that's ridiculous. and if it came down to it, they would be having huge press conferences to say they are doing it as a memorial.

it's still bass akwards and stupid thinking to pretend that most americans will view this as an act of patriotism. the fact is, no country's citizens would accept that.

this doesn't affect me at all, so i'll still sleep fine tonight. it's still downright rude and dumb of them.

They probably should open it on a different day. However, I feel like there would be just as many people saying they don't want it at all, regardless of what day they opened it. Honestly, this thread would still probably be here if they hadn't specified a date, and there would be plenty of people who would be upset with it.

this isn't a utopian society; you can't expect anything different. it's not about being american, it's about being human.

people are selfish, rude, uninformed, angry, and racist.

it's human nature. it's being able to live with those people and not become them that shows our humanity.

True that.