:: View topic - Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.

Too little Too late! And thank god for that.

I can sell energy from a Wind Farm in the midwest at 4.5 cents a kwh. The same price the "Fossil Fuel" generating facilities are getting for their production and the wind farm would still have a decent ROI.

But as for Global Warming and certain groups attempts to manipulate data to foster an atmosphere of "fear" in order to change resource usage, this I do believe is happening to an extent. On both sides of the aisle for that matter. These guys are scumbags for not being honest. I would just as soon throw their asses in an incenerator unit to create electricity

slesh wrote:

Too little Too late! And thank god for that.

yeah...get the scam in fast before the people know the difference.

Quote:

And yet it would be impossible to power even the smallest of cities with any imaginable combination of "green" energy...at least for the foreseeable future.
And I bet no wind farm can compete with nuclear.
For that matter, why aren't nuke plants considered green???

Quote:

Frankly, I expect the politicians and policy makers to lie to us, but this is beyond the pale.

Fossil fuels will still be needed for now, but your statement of renewable energy not having the ability to power a population center is a FAIL.
Its already been clearly proven that a solar thermal field half the size of the state of Arizona could power the entire nation currently.
Wind power will be roughly 27% of this nations power supply in a mere 15 years. Its not even a matter of debating the facts here, its going to happen.

slesh wrote:

Current reality:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/ ... eport.html

I see a very large gap in what's being touted (solar and wind) and what is actually happening.

Additionally, the 20% wind prediction is based on several major factors that are by no means foregone conclusions.
First and foremost, it requires an enhanced transmission infrastructure (nice to talk about but much harder to do especially with a tanked economy).
It also requires streamlined siting and permitting (have fun with all the NIMBY folks added on top of the usual environmental impact statements).
http://www.energy.gov/news/6253.htm

Since I'm told the point of this exercise is to limit greenhouse gas emissions, I would have to conclude that nuclear is the only way to accomplish that in my lifetime quite frankly.

EDIT: and please don't take this the wrong way.
I'm 100% for exploiting every renewable source of energy we can find. I just tend to think we're being sold a bill of goods to forward a global political agenda and not to actually combat "global warming", real or perceived.

slesh, you own a renewable energy company? VERY interested. ive been shouting for more green energy for about 5 years now.

That's a nice grant you have there. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it.

Turbines in any electrical producing endeavor have to be replaced periodically. Wind farms are no exception.

Also, did it ever cross your mind that some of our members around here might be of middle eastern descent, and may find the term 'towel-heads' kind of offensive?

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
61 megabytes to topple a false empire? http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james ... l-warming/ A sample: Quote: I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. You know what? I don't think anything pisses me off more than dishonest "scientists". Conversely, I don't think there's anything that makes me happier than white-hat hackers. That's a nice research grant you have there. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
The raw files are still available online for the time being.... http://www.thelaymanscorner.com/HACRU/

Author:	slesh [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Too little Too late! And thank god for that. I own a renewable/alternative energy company. The very fact the end of this article attempts to site "higher" utility rates do to the industries technology is pure fantasy. I can sell energy from a Wind Farm in the midwest at 4.5 cents a kwh. The same price the "Fossil Fuel" generating facilities are getting for their production and the wind farm would still have a decent ROI. And lets face it, it is better for the air quality. Although, tell that to the migrating birds, they would flip you the middle feather as they get to watch their pals get thumped by turbine blades . But as for Global Warming and certain groups attempts to manipulate data to foster an atmosphere of "fear" in order to change resource usage, this I do believe is happening to an extent. On both sides of the aisle for that matter. These guys are scumbags for not being honest. I would just as soon throw their asses in an incenerator unit to create electricity .

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
slesh wrote: Too little Too late! And thank god for that. yeah...get the scam in fast before the people know the difference. Quote: I can sell energy from a Wind Farm in the midwest at 4.5 cents a kwh. The same price the "Fossil Fuel" generating facilities are getting for their production and the wind farm would still have a decent ROI. And yet it would be impossible to power even the smallest of cities with any imaginable combination of "green" energy...at least for the foreseeable future. And I bet no wind farm can compete with nuclear. For that matter, why aren't nuke plants considered green??? Quote: But as for Global Warming and certain groups attempts to manipulate data to foster an atmosphere of "fear" in order to change resource usage, this I do believe is happening to an extent. On both sides of the aisle for that matter. These guys are scumbags for not being honest. I would just as soon throw their asses in an incenerator unit to create electricity . Frankly, I expect the politicians and policy makers to lie to us, but this is beyond the pale.

Author:	slesh [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Crosscheck wrote: slesh wrote: Too little Too late! And thank god for that. yeah...get the scam in fast before the people know the difference. Quote: I can sell energy from a Wind Farm in the midwest at 4.5 cents a kwh. The same price the "Fossil Fuel" generating facilities are getting for their production and the wind farm would still have a decent ROI. And yet it would be impossible to power even the smallest of cities with any imaginable combination of "green" energy...at least for the foreseeable future. And I bet no wind farm can compete with nuclear. For that matter, why aren't nuke plants considered green??? Quote: But as for Global Warming and certain groups attempts to manipulate data to foster an atmosphere of "fear" in order to change resource usage, this I do believe is happening to an extent. On both sides of the aisle for that matter. These guys are scumbags for not being honest. I would just as soon throw their asses in an incenerator unit to create electricity . Frankly, I expect the politicians and policy makers to lie to us, but this is beyond the pale. 1. The too little too late comment was towards the time it took to expose this behavior, not the attempt to "SCAM" someone, or anyone. 2. The "Green Energy" that I deal with is utility scale and self sustaining, what happens when oil and coal supplies dwindle? Green Energy, or renewable energy is the answer. And Nuke plants cannot be considered green, they have no infinite natural supply. As with coal and oil, radioactive based material on the planet is not infinite. Not to mention the elevated risk factors with the plants. Ever built a power plant? I worked with MMR Group at the Savannah river site for an upgrade, the dangers are greater at these plants and the costs are immense due to those dangers. 3. As I stated and you quoted, my industry doesn't need scumbags such as these to enhance it. We are doing just fine without them. Whether or not global warming is real or fantasy, I would need more data then we currently have and even then it could be a natural phenom. Only 100 years or so of the industrial age, to little time to really tell in my opinion.

http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/

Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1046	Page 1 of 3

Author:	slesh [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
www.fullcircleenergy.net This technology is just coming online, its green, its 100% renewable and a 2000 ton per day facility generates 213MW of power. This is one of many different renewable energy models that task themselves to take care of multiple environmental issues. Fossil fuels will still be needed for now, but your statement of renewable energy not having the ability to power a population center is a FAIL. Its already been clearly proven that a solar thermal field half the size of the state of Arizona could power the entire nation currently. Wind power will be roughly 27% of this nations power supply in a mere 15 years. Its not even a matter of debating the facts here, its going to happen. Transmission capacity on the current grid has already received a 17 billion dollar commitment from private investment and has been slated for an additional 24 billion in federal funds. And before anyone has a thought of saying "not our tax dollars" what in the hell do you say when you get on the Eisenhower thruway system "Completely paid for by federal funds".

Author:	ironyisadeadscene [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
slesh, you own a renewable energy company? VERY interested. ive been shouting for more green energy for about 5 years now.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
slesh wrote: Fossil fuels will still be needed for now, but your statement of renewable energy not having the ability to power a population center is a FAIL. Its already been clearly proven that a solar thermal field half the size of the state of Arizona could power the entire nation currently. Wind power will be roughly 27% of this nations power supply in a mere 15 years. Its not even a matter of debating the facts here, its going to happen. Current reality: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/ ... eport.html I see a very large gap in what's being touted (solar and wind) and what is actually happening. Additionally, the 20% wind prediction is based on several major factors that are by no means foregone conclusions. First and foremost, it requires an enhanced transmission infrastructure (nice to talk about but much harder to do especially with a tanked economy). It also requires streamlined siting and permitting (have fun with all the NIMBY folks added on top of the usual environmental impact statements). http://www.energy.gov/news/6253.htm Since I'm told the point of this exercise is to limit greenhouse gas emissions, I would have to conclude that nuclear is the only way to accomplish that in my lifetime quite frankly. EDIT: and please don't take this the wrong way. I'm 100% for exploiting every renewable source of energy we can find. I just tend to think we're being sold a bill of goods to forward a global political agenda and not to actually combat "global warming", real or perceived.

Author:	slesh [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Crosscheck wrote: slesh wrote: Fossil fuels will still be needed for now, but your statement of renewable energy not having the ability to power a population center is a FAIL. Its already been clearly proven that a solar thermal field half the size of the state of Arizona could power the entire nation currently. Wind power will be roughly 27% of this nations power supply in a mere 15 years. Its not even a matter of debating the facts here, its going to happen. Current reality: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/ ... eport.html I see a very large gap in what's being touted (solar and wind) and what is actually happening. Additionally, the 20% wind prediction is based on several major factors that are by no means foregone conclusions. First and foremost, it requires an enhanced transmission infrastructure (nice to talk about but much harder to do especially with a tanked economy). It also requires streamlined siting and permitting (have fun with all the NIMBY folks added on top of the usual environmental impact statements). http://www.energy.gov/news/6253.htm Since I'm told the point of this exercise is to limit greenhouse gas emissions, I would have to conclude that nuclear is the only way to accomplish that in my lifetime quite frankly. EDIT: and please don't take this the wrong way. I'm 100% for exploiting every renewable source of energy we can find. I just tend to think we're being sold a bill of goods to forward a global political agenda and not to actually combat "global warming", real or perceived. lol, I'm not taking it the wrong way CrossCheck. I just happen to know the numbers your quoting and the information your using as source material is and should be all over the industry. We have things coming your not aware of, things will take immense amounts of electricity. We are going to need all of the renewables, even wind and solar. I go to meetings with the DOE all of the time and the grid is going to get its make over, about 1 trillion dollars worth in total and almost all of that will be private funding. As for Nuclear, it cost 14 billion dollars to build one of these plants and that number is conservative. The enviromentalists who speak on the dangers of these plants are correct, it is an unnecessary risk to the general population. Not while we have so many other fuel sources that are natural at our disposal. China has surppased the U.S. in the field of renewables. Sad but true. We have projects tht company are working on as an advisor firm right here, locally and they show gret promise. You can't just build a reactor for a Waste Management Plant which takes alot of power, but you could throw a couple of 45KW turbines on the property or solar to offset those costs and that are incurred for the operation or you could go the geo-thermal route if your in the right area. China = 4000+ coal fired power plants U.S. = 1482 current coal fired power plants. Then there is Buffet, there is a reason he bought Burlington Railroad. It was for the track runs crrenlty in place from the midwest to the west coast. He was no dummy, he is fully aware of the magnatic levatatioin passenger and cargo trains that are in the planning for the future in this nation. With that on the plate, he now owns the runs that most of the new tracks will be built on. MagLevs take immense amounts electricity to operate and the electricity is derived from regional sources. Alot is happeneing beyond what you see in the news or read on the DOE or other published sights. Like I said, my company reads business plans and pro forma's all day long. Actually, myself and my staff do vet about 3 utility sized projects a week. Its over for fossil fuels, the supply to demand ratio establishes this fact alone.

Author:	slesh [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
ironyisadeadscene wrote: slesh, you own a renewable energy company? VERY interested. ive been shouting for more green energy for about 5 years now. Ya Irony, www.eninthal.com I'm an industrial electrician, I used to travel the country as a master electrician and build powerplants.

Author:	daz28 [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Crosscheck wrote: That's a nice grant you have there. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it. This may be the biggest social issue we have(if you consider the lack of funds to solve REAL problems an issue). Someone with big balls, and a big knife is who we need in the White House. We have PLENTY of tax revenue, we just waste a ton of it.

Author:	End The Curse [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
What's really sad about this is how many otherwise well meaning and intelligent people were played the fools by the environmentalist mafia. I would recommend that those of us who always knew better try our best to resist the temptation to mock those who unwittingly fell for the Global Warming hoax with "I told you so's". They are going to go through a very rough time, with all the stages of grief that are associated with finding out they were just useful idiots getting suckered by some very bad and manipulative people. We should have the same compassion for these poor souls as we would have for a child who suddenly learns there is no Santa Clause...their hearts are broken now, but hopefully they learn from this humiliating experience and we need to welcome them to reality with open arms.

Author:	acrossthelines [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Not surprising at all (if legitimate; looks like it is). I've long suspected the occurrence of such things within the "scientific" (/human/deceptive) community. It is the same everywhere else within the public sphere; why would it not extend there?

Author:	nnyfan [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
I have to say the debate over windpower has divided our little town completely in half. As the local barber, I've heard a lot on both sides of the fence, and this is where I currently stand: (now you guys can all sleep better at night knowing MY opinion LOL) I am ALL FOR researching renewable energy sources. Any and all steps we can take to distance ourselves from depending on others for our energy is great. HOWEVER, take the Tug Hill windfarm in Lowville. Probably one of the newest windfarms and best examples the industry has to offer. It is currently running at 11% efficiency and provides the grid with 1% of its power. Also, the turbines have to be replaced after 10 years. What do we do with the old ones? It leaves many questions as to the benefit of such a visual obstruction, not to mention the harmful effects the anti-wind people tout, such as the low frequency sound put off when placed near a village (like MINE) and the effects on people with problems like epilepsy due to light flicker. I don't really care that much about the stupid birds that fly into them. They're about as intelligent as the ones that fly into my front windows. Across the river, Wolfe Island has been raped by windmills. You should see it at night, looking over at the island...its like War of the Worlds with all those blinking red lights! Creepy! And, so much for our sunsets. Bleh! And, the woman that spearheaded the windfarm on Wolfe Island came to one of our town meetings and said she regrets some of the decisions she made and to tread slowly into such a decision for Cape Vincent. My husband thinks the turbines should be on top of the skyscrapers in NYC because that's where the energy is going to, anyway, much like the energy generated by Niagara Falls. If they're the beneficiaries, let THEM look at them. Anyhow, as I said, I'm happy to research renewable energy, but before we make our towns and countryside into an industrial wasteland, we need more research into them.

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Author:	Squanto [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Turbines in any electrical producing endeavor have to be replaced periodically. Wind farms are no exception. Also, did it ever cross your mind that some of our members around here might be of middle eastern descent, and may find the term 'towel-heads' kind of offensive?

Author:	Stuuuuuuu [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Squanto wrote: Turbines in any electrical producing endeavor have to be replaced periodically. Wind farms are no exception. Also, did it ever cross your mind that some of our members around here might be of middle eastern descent, and may find the term 'towel-heads' kind of offensive? 25% Syrian here. Saying things like "towel heads" makes me want to completely ignore anything you post, even though I was already halfway there after you said the US was "at war with Islam".

Author:	CriminallyVu1gar [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Squanto wrote: Turbines in any electrical producing endeavor have to be replaced periodically. Wind farms are no exception. Also, did it ever cross your mind that some of our members around here might be of middle eastern descent, and may find the term 'towel-heads' kind of offensive? Yeah, especially if they're a mod...

Author:	nnyfan [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
Squanto wrote: Turbines in any electrical producing endeavor have to be replaced periodically. Wind farms are no exception. Also, did it ever cross your mind that some of our members around here might be of middle eastern descent, and may find the term 'towel-heads' kind of offensive? sorry...fixed..and I apologize. it was NOT a nice thing to say.

Author:	End The Curse [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
I believe Ice is also of arab descent, right? Egyptian if I remember correctly?

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hacker exposes global warming conspiracy and collusion
So what part of global warming is a hoax? The part that says humans are causing it, or the part that it's happening at all? I mean, there's evidence everywhere that it's really occurring.