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Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
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Author:  Crosscheck [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Very recently, during the health care debate in the Senate, an amendment that would have barred tax payer money from being used in abortion procedures was defeated by the Democratic majority with several notable Democrats siding with Republicans.
This issue has the potential of keeping the Democrats from reaching the magic 60 votes needed to end debate and pass the bill.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capito ... id=topnews

Even though this is admittedly a highly controversial topic, I do NOT want this to be a thread about abortion in general. If it turns into a pro-choice vs. pro-life fight I'll just close it.

My $.02: I'm pro-choice, yet I cannot support any legislation that would force pro-life Americans to fund abortions.
Author:  Wozniak [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
again, i need a half way option.

i think it should only be used for necessary abortions where there are actual health risks, like mother will die or mother and child will both die. it should not be used for some dumbass like "o, i forgot to have my boyfriend/random fuck buddy where a condom and i got pregnant, hehe."
Author:  Crosscheck [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Well the idea being kicked around was if a woman wanted abortions covered under the public option, she would have to pay an extra premium for that service. It wouldn't come out of the general fund.

I would be fine with that option, but alas some of the more militant pro-choice senators (I'm looking at you Barbara Boxer) find that unacceptable.
Author:  daz28 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
I didn't have much time to think this over, but if it's legal, then the woman should be able to do it. Keep your morals in your own house. I don't refuse to pay for a smokers cancer care do I??
Author:  Crosscheck [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
daz28 wrote:
I didn't have much time to think this over, but if it's legal, then the woman should be able to do it. Keep your morals in your own house. I don't refuse to pay for a smokers cancer care do I??

No one is saying the woman shouldn't be able to do it.

And I would say there's a big difference between paying for an abortion...and paying to keep someone with cancer alive, no?
Author:  Wozniak [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Crosscheck wrote:
daz28 wrote:
I didn't have much time to think this over, but if it's legal, then the woman should be able to do it. Keep your morals in your own house. I don't refuse to pay for a smokers cancer care do I??

No one is saying the woman shouldn't be able to do it.

And I would say there's a big difference between paying for an abortion...and paying to keep someone with cancer alive, no?

while i agree with you XC, i see Daz's point.
Author:  Squanto [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
I'll also put forth the disclaimer that I'm pro-choice.

I would have no problem with taxpayer money being spent on an abortion in circumstances of rape and incest, or where it is recommended to save the life of the mother when complications arise.

I would not want taxpayer money used for elective abortions.

I would have no problems asking someone to pay an additional out of pocket premium for that procedure if they choose to do so.
Author:  PuckSniperPensel [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
I'm pro choice, and I say under no circumstances should taxpayer money be used to pay for abortions... EXCEPT for when a pregnancy is life threatening for the mother.
Author:  daz28 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Is anyone going to offer up their reasoning for WHY they shouldn't allow the procedure(and these should be legal or at least economic reasons, not moral)??

I hate smoking, and think it's a foolish habit. It raises the cost of health care astronomically(a legitimate reason, not just me saying "I don't like it"). If health insurance were ALLOWED to operate like car insurance, they'd be paying EXTREME premiums. Instead, we all have to carry the burden of their "CHOICE", whether we like it or not. I could go on about obesity(et al) too, but I think you get the point.

I understand that abortion can be avoided, but so can lung cancer(for the most part) if you quit smoking 3 packs/day. I just think this is the church sticking their snoots in politics as usual. The courts have said it's legal, and they can't handle it. Maybe if they read the constitution it says they can't make laws respecting any religion(or said religions beliefs).
Author:  Squanto [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
My reasoning could be summarized that I would not want taxpayer dollars to be used in any elective procedure. I think it's fiscally absurd that public, unionized employees can go get plastic surgery and breast implants on health insurance plans paid for by public dollars.

I would consider an abortion an elective procedure except in the cases I outlined above.
Author:  daz28 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Squanto wrote:
My reasoning could be summarized that I would not want taxpayer dollars to be used in any elective procedure. I think it's fiscally absurd that public, unionized employees can go get plastic surgery and breast implants on health insurance plans paid for by public dollars.

I would consider an abortion an elective procedure except in the cases I outlined above.

Fair enough. Sort of a different topic, but how do you feel about coverage for people who INTENTIONALLY cause themselves ill health, but pay the same premium as you.
Author:  Squanto [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
I understand where you're going with that question, but I think that answer is simple, and already in effect in most cases.

Make smokers pay higher premiums.

I know that this already happens a lot, but I feel it should happen more. If you want to intentionally do something that will cause you to require more medical care down the line, you should pay more for it.

My brother is a smoker, and he's paying about 35% higher premiums than I am. That's the right direction to start. In the same vein, the one NYS tax I have no problem with cigarette taxes. If people won't quit on their own accord, convince them financially. :)
Author:  daz28 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
OK, I'm on board with you. If a woman wants a policy to include abortions, she pays a higher premium, otherwise she pays them out of pocket. Same goes for smokers, obese people, etc.

The problem here is that they will try to get you to pay higher because of age too, I'd imagine. Which ruins the whole principal of it being "insurance".

Another thing is, most insurance through employers(that I know of) they don't ask if you smoke. I imagine that is because it would lead to discriminatory hiring.
Author:  CriminallyVu1gar [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Squanto wrote:
I'll also put forth the disclaimer that I'm pro-choice.

I would have no problem with taxpayer money being spent on an abortion in circumstances of rape and incest, or where it is recommended to save the life of the mother when complications arise.

I would not want taxpayer money used for elective abortions.

I would have no problems asking someone to pay an additional out of pocket premium for that procedure if they choose to do so.


I think this is the stance that myself and most sensible people will have. Well put Squanto.
Author:  Rutledge222 [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Simple. No. My opinion.... Im not going to get into a whole Abortion arguement with you all why I think its wrong, if you wanna message me you can, I wrote a paper on it, and Ill send it to you, after you read it you can tell me what you think and we can talk :)
Author:  Squanto [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Rutledge222 wrote:
Im not going to get into a whole Abortion arguement with you all why I think its wrong, if you wanna message me you can, I wrote a paper on it, and Ill send it to you, after you read it you can tell me what you think and we can talk :)



Please pay attention.

Crosscheck wrote:
Even though this is admittedly a highly controversial topic, I do NOT want this to be a thread about abortion in general.
Author:  End The Curse [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
I agree with the majority. No insurance for elective surgery.
Author:  Rutledge222 [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Squanto wrote:
Rutledge222 wrote:
Im not going to get into a whole Abortion arguement with you all why I think its wrong, if you wanna message me you can, I wrote a paper on it, and Ill send it to you, after you read it you can tell me what you think and we can talk :)



Please pay attention.

Crosscheck wrote:
Even though this is admittedly a highly controversial topic, I do NOT want this to be a thread about abortion in general.


Sorry I missed that?
Author:  slesh [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Excellent post XCheck. And your first post is my stand as well. I have no dog in this fight.

I do have a question though, if the thinking that pro-lifers shouldn't pay for abortions, is that based on a "choice" concept? If so can that be applied to other situations as well?

The reason I ask is that appears to be a common sense thing and the way you wrote it was blunt, upfront and honest. No double talk, just say it like it is and I admire that.
Author:  Crosscheck [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should taxpayer money be used to fund abortions?
Well, think about any other "insurance" situation...premiums are based on risk and the how much the insured wants covered.

Smokers pay a lot more for life and health insurance (and they should).
Males under 25 pay more for auto insurance (and they should).
If I want theft and glass covered on my cars I pay more (and I should).

Abortions are overwhelmingly elective (I've never known or personally heard of anyone that's needed one for health reasons)...there are "high risk" groups...just like young drivers.

There's no market based reason everyone should be on the hook for covering them (morals aside).
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