:: View topic - No one wants this turd

I like the tough, principled stand the Republicans are making on reconciliation. It is terrible to ram/jam/shove (pick your favorite Fox News phallic phrase) legislation down the throats of the American people. They would never use reconciliation to pass major legislation, right?

Welllll...

The 1995 Balanced Budget Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 52 to 47.
The 2001 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 58 to 33.
The 2003 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 50 to 50, with Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote.
The 2005 Deficit Reduction Act was also passed in reconciliation with a 50 to 50 vote and a Cheney intervention.
The 2006 Tax Relief Extensions Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 54 to 44.

Yet, this health care legislation has ALREADY passed the Senate with 60 votes under the normal process. The only thing that would pass under a simple majority vote (that is right, passed by MAJORITY VOTE - those evil, Stalinist Democrats are relying on the will of the majority - outrageous!) would be a series of amendments that fit comfortably under the "reconciliation" rules established to deal with money issues.

If only the American people could express their will in some sort of public referendum...you know, like a national election, or something, where candidates could present their ideas on healthcare and then the American people could decide which ideas they favored. That way the party that won this referendum could represent the will of the majority through their legislation.

Of course, that presupposes that both parties actually believe in the democratic process, which won't happen because the Republicans long ago gave up on any belief in democracy, instead favoring anything that either allows them to hold power or prevent anyone else from holding power.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:32 am ]
Post subject:	No one wants this turd
but we're all gonna get it http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61O4NV20100303 Debate has run its course and we get a bill that makes no sense to either side... ...on the upside, I guess Joe Biden can make himself useful.

Author:	daz28 [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
I wonder why they call it reconciliation?? Maybe they are using it in the marital law sense?? If it's fair, then it's fair. Calling it "new-clear" was just dumb. Have the Republican's ever picketed??

Author:	psychemedisabrefan [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
and here i thought it was going to be a picture of a player with no value. And if we follow the south park philosophy every election is between a douche and a turd, america can just hope that whatever is elected will put america before, parties, themselves.

Author:	Sabresfansince1980 [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
Divided we fall. Until people start to give a shit, refuse the same old corrupt politicians with agendas, and reform the political system, we will always get power hungry, greedy, and sometimes criminal self-centered jokes that don't care about doing the right thing.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
Quote: “The TANF program affects millions of American children and families and deserves a full and fair debate. Under the rules, the reconciliation process does not permit that debate. Reconciliation is therefore the wrong place for policy changes and the wrong place for the proposed changes to the TANF program. In short, the reconciliation process appears to have lost its proper meaning. A vehicle designed for deficit reduction and fiscal responsibility has been hijacked to facilitate reckless deficits and unsustainable debt.” Barack Obama 2005

http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/

No one wants this turd http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2472	Page 1 of 1

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
daz28 wrote: I wonder why they call it reconciliation?? Maybe they are using it in the marital law sense?? If it's fair, then it's fair. Calling it "new-clear" was just dumb. Have the Republican's ever picketed?? Reconcile can be defined as, "to settle."

Author:	Godzilla1960 [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
I like the tough, principled stand the Republicans are making on reconciliation. It is terrible to ram/jam/shove (pick your favorite Fox News phallic phrase) legislation down the throats of the American people. They would never use reconciliation to pass major legislation, right? Welllll... The 1995 Balanced Budget Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 52 to 47. The 2001 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 58 to 33. The 2003 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 50 to 50, with Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. The 2005 Deficit Reduction Act was also passed in reconciliation with a 50 to 50 vote and a Cheney intervention. The 2006 Tax Relief Extensions Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 54 to 44. Yet, this health care legislation has ALREADY passed the Senate with 60 votes under the normal process. The only thing that would pass under a simple majority vote (that is right, passed by MAJORITY VOTE - those evil, Stalinist Democrats are relying on the will of the majority - outrageous!) would be a series of amendments that fit comfortably under the "reconciliation" rules established to deal with money issues. If only the American people could express their will in some sort of public referendum...you know, like a national election, or something, where candidates could present their ideas on healthcare and then the American people could decide which ideas they favored. That way the party that won this referendum could represent the will of the majority through their legislation. Of course, that presupposes that both parties actually believe in the democratic process, which won't happen because the Republicans long ago gave up on any belief in democracy, instead favoring anything that either allows them to hold power or prevent anyone else from holding power.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
Godzilla1960 wrote: The 1995 Balanced Budget Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 52 to 47. The 2001 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 58 to 33. The 2003 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 50 to 50, with Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. The 2005 Deficit Reduction Act was also passed in reconciliation with a 50 to 50 vote and a Cheney intervention. The 2006 Tax Relief Extensions Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 54 to 44. Reconciliation was designed to be used for budgetary concerns...not to pass major policy pieces. "Reconciliation is therefore the wrong place for policy changes" ~Barack Obama Nice try though.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
and Zilla.....this bill is not the will of the people. You know it, I know it, they know it. They're going to get tossed on their asses for it.

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
Godzilla1960 wrote: I like the tough, principled stand the Republicans are making on reconciliation. It is terrible to ram/jam/shove (pick your favorite Fox News phallic phrase) legislation down the throats of the American people. They would never use reconciliation to pass major legislation, right? Welllll... The 1995 Balanced Budget Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 52 to 47. The 2001 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 58 to 33. The 2003 Bush Tax Cut was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 50 to 50, with Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. The 2005 Deficit Reduction Act was also passed in reconciliation with a 50 to 50 vote and a Cheney intervention. The 2006 Tax Relief Extensions Act was passed in reconciliation. The final vote was 54 to 44. Yet, this health care legislation has ALREADY passed the Senate with 60 votes under the normal process. The only thing that would pass under a simple majority vote (that is right, passed by MAJORITY VOTE - those evil, Stalinist Democrats are relying on the will of the majority - outrageous!) would be a series of amendments that fit comfortably under the "reconciliation" rules established to deal with money issues. If only the American people could express their will in some sort of public referendum...you know, like a national election, or something, where candidates could present their ideas on healthcare and then the American people could decide which ideas they favored. That way the party that won this referendum could represent the will of the majority through their legislation. Of course, that presupposes that both parties actually believe in the democratic process, which won't happen because the Republicans long ago gave up on any belief in democracy, instead favoring anything that either allows them to hold power or prevent anyone else from holding power. I hate this argument, Zilla, because two wrongs don't make a right. No matter how you look at it, it appears to me that this health care plan is one that most people I talk to disapprove of. If we just supply this sort of stuff to people, then where's the incentive to work hard and go get it?

Author:	Squanto [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
Reconciliation is part of the rules of the Senate. The Republican run Congress used this process many times, as Zilla already pointed out. If it's so terrible, the Republicans shouldn't have used it, and senators should get together and change the rules of the Senate to remove it as an option. The Repubs will bitch about it, but they don't want that rule done away with, because then they can't use it when it's their turn to be in power. It's just a big clusterfuck down there, no matter which way your political leanings are.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
As I pointed out...up to this point, both sides have used it for its intended purpose; budgetary concerns. The reason reconciliation exists is so a filibuster can't shut down government by delaying essential spending. I'm sorry, this health care "reform" bill is not the time and place to use this procedure. And when Zilla argues the Senate has already passed this bill with 60 votes, that's just plain wrong. We haven't even seen the full makeup of the newest proposal from the White House yet. The House and Senate certainly haven't agreed on anything much less passed a unified bill.

Author:	Sabresfansince1980 [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No one wants this turd
Let's not jump on zilla, this is the place for uninformed views, arguments, and distorted agendas. We ~~live~~ and die by it.

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