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slesh
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:32 am 
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I have to tell ya, normally I brush this off as pure media hype. But in the case of the Bush administration, after serving over seas and not only witnessing, but actually being inserted into the search for WMD's, specifically in Karbala, Iraq and seeing first hand the actual half heartedness with which that search was conducted, the comments from individuals in position of authority on the expectations to find anything, then the total lack of effort to send 2 brigades to the border with Syria, where my own brigade commander stated "there is nothing true about this and there is no evidence, none to suggest WMD's are being secretly shipped to Syria or are even in country beyond that which was already known from the 80's", I have come to the conclusion and have had this conclusion since roughly the middle of 2004 that the entire leadership in the Bush administration should have been taken into custody and charges of mass murder brought against them.

Understand, I do not make statements like the one above lightly. Its something that has dwelled inside of me for the last 5 years or so. This wasn't the eye opener to the realities of the power elite, it was only the confirmation that there are those who are truly "Above The Law" in this nation.

It is with that back drop that I found it very amusing that some group, called Code Pink attempted to arrest Karl Rove this past monday at a book signing. A friend of mine from my time in the service and I met for some coffee while he was in town yesterday morning. We started to talk about the invasion and the subsequent conversations we had back at Ft. Campbell when we returned from that first tour.

He asked me a compelling question, and one I always thought I knew the answer to without question. He asked me if I ever had the chance to step infront of a Rumsfeild, Rove, Bush or Wolfawitz, would I feel the urge to lash out and attempt to insert justice like these groups do, knowing what we know now?

At first, I thought, no, I wouldn't see the reason since nothing will come of it anyways. Then, before I answered him, I looked at him and asked, "had you thought of it"?. We talked on it for a bit and I then asked him, "isn't it our responsiblity as citizens to ensure justice prevails, no matter how it puts our reputations at risk in the media"?

I still wonder to this day if I would or wouldn't do it, but the larger reason I post this, is because this woman that did this on Monday, after I reviewed my own inner thoughts on this with the information I have first hand from being over there, she is actually a hero to me.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe, after reviewing the information that is available, that the Bush leadership in its administration should be held accountable for the Iraq War? And if so, would you attempt to make a citizens arrest?

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:35 pm 
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I pretty much agree with you totally on this one Slesh. Of course the idea of making a citizen's arrest on Rove or anybody else is highly unrealistic, and there aren't many other legal options (I suppose you could throw your shoe at him, but that one didn't end too well for the shoe-chucker). So I totally understand your frustration. I feel betrayed enough by the whole thing just from my perspective on the sidelines. You actually put your life at risk because of the Bush administration. If I were you, I'd be furious beyond reason.


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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:39 pm 
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The executive has all sorts of legal protections for things like that.
Never gonna happen.
Did it happen for Korea or Viet Nam?
nope.

And Code Pink should fail for just being annoying....and for picking an adviser to try this on.
Karl Rove had no official powers. Double fail.

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Eh, while I fully agree with you, It seems kind of pointless. Maybe i've just been desensitized, but it seems like the government doing whatever the fuck it wants without consulting me to ask how I feel is pretty much par for the course.

What really bothers me about it all is how bush wasted the most political capitol that anyone has ever had, EVER. 9 years after 911, we're embroiled in two wars, have spent trillion(s?) of dollars to kill hundreds of thousands (Cant seem to find a definite number anywhere, but most places give a number above 100K dead) of people and...what the hell do we have to show for it? International alienation and debt. Awesome. Thats the shit I hate the bush administration for, I'm sure there is a laundry list of other things i'm not even aware of, but two wars we probably shouldnt be in, and clearly did not give enough thought to before plunging in are what really pisses me off. Exit strategy? We dont need no stinkin exit strategy!


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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:43 pm 
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edit: Nevermind


Last edited by YankeeInRaleigh on Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:45 pm 
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BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.

Only 6 posts until CC finds a way to bash Obama. WE HAVE A NEW RECORD LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:52 pm 
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BTW Cross (not to hijack Slesh's thread, but I don't feel like starting a new one for this), have you found a way to dislike that Obama wants to expand offshore drilling yet?


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HelloMyKneeGrows
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:06 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.


Wait a minute, war mongering isn't a strictly Republican act? You're kidding me!?!?!?

I do find it oddly comical that all the anti-war protesters literally DISAPPEARED as soon as Obama was elected and proceeded to EXPAND our role in these wars......jesus

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.

Only 6 posts until CC finds a way to bash Obama. WE HAVE A NEW RECORD LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

That is NOT a bash on Obama...I'm fine with the escalation...it's a bash on Code Pink.


Stuuuuuuu wrote:
BTW Cross (not to hijack Slesh's thread, but I don't feel like starting a new one for this), have you found a way to dislike that Obama wants to expand offshore drilling yet?

Yeah, it's not ANWR.
Oh, he also broke a campaign promise with that one too ;)

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:13 pm 
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The fact that someone tried to do this is admiral, even if it's legally shit. A citizen's arrest can only be made if the citizen directly witnesses a person committing a felony.

I'm not a fan of Code Pink doing it though, just because I don't agree with many of their protest tactics.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:35 pm 
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HelloMyKneeGrows wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.


Wait a minute, war mongering isn't a strictly Republican act? You're kidding me!?!?!?

I do find it oddly comical that all the anti-war protesters literally DISAPPEARED as soon as Obama was elected and proceeded to EXPAND our role in these wars......jesus

What world are you living in? There has been plenty of anti-war protest about Afghanistan, in my opinion even MORE than there was under Bush. There's not as much Iraq protest, probably because there's a "plan" to bring the troops home.


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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.


You are such a partisan hypocrite for saying that. :D

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HelloMyKneeGrows
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
HelloMyKneeGrows wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
BTW, how come I haven't seen code pink dumping blood or something on Obama admin. officials for escalating the Afghanistan war?

Oh yeah, they're partisan hypocrites.


Wait a minute, war mongering isn't a strictly Republican act? You're kidding me!?!?!?

I do find it oddly comical that all the anti-war protesters literally DISAPPEARED as soon as Obama was elected and proceeded to EXPAND our role in these wars......jesus

What world are you living in? There has been plenty of anti-war protest about Afghanistan, in my opinion even MORE than there was under Bush. There's not as much Iraq protest, probably because there's a "plan" to bring the troops home.


I have yet to see anything on any of the liberal outlets about this. And I spend about two hours a night while doing hw flipping through the news networks. It may be happening but the media certainly is not reporting it, which I also find quite interesting. Not saying you're wrong, and you probably are right. I guess my point is more that the media chooses not to cover it now that their suckoff partner is in the Oval Office

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
What world are you living in? There has been plenty of anti-war protest about Afghanistan, in my opinion even MORE than there was under Bush.

Show me one.

I just went to Code Pink's website and all they have for Obama is a link to a strongly worded letter
http://www.codepink4peace.org/
http://www.losing-hope.org/

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slesh
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Squanto wrote:
The fact that someone tried to do this is admiral, even if it's legally shit. A citizen's arrest can only be made if the citizen directly witnesses a person committing a felony.

I'm not a fan of Code Pink doing it though, just because I don't agree with many of their protest tactics.

I happen to agree with this Squanto after reading it.
Then I started thinking on this, Bush ordered the country to War on national TV, I think we don't lack for witnesses.
To get to the point on this though, did that woman who tried to make a citizens arrest watch TV that night?

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HelloMyKneeGrows
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
What world are you living in? There has been plenty of anti-war protest about Afghanistan, in my opinion even MORE than there was under Bush.

Show me one.

I just went to Code Pink's website and all they have for Obama is a link to a strongly worded letter
http://www.codepink4peace.org/
http://www.losing-hope.org/


Thats kinda what I was getting at, I haven't seen any. Doesn't mean it might not exist out there somewhere, just that I have yet to see any evidence of it.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:05 pm 
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slesh wrote:
I happen to agree with this Squanto after reading it.
Then I started thinking on this, Bush ordered the country to War on national TV, I think we don't lack for witnesses.
To get to the point on this though, did that woman who tried to make a citizens arrest watch TV that night?


1. The President didn't and can't order the military to war (technically)...yes, Viet Nam was a police action and all of that, but Iraq was voted on by congress.
2. Karl Rove was an unelected adviser who mainly had campaign responsibilities and no authority to do anything material.

They picked a silly person to try this on.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
Stuuuuuuu wrote:
What world are you living in? There has been plenty of anti-war protest about Afghanistan, in my opinion even MORE than there was under Bush.

Show me one.

I just went to Code Pink's website and all they have for Obama is a link to a strongly worded letter
http://www.codepink4peace.org/
http://www.losing-hope.org/

Well, 2-3 weeks ago, the House took up a debate on continuing the war. I know you'll say it was Dennis Kucinnich (sp?)who brought that to the floor. But I think that the fact that he was allowed to introduce the debate shows just how unpopular the war is becoming. The representatives probably would not allow that to be debated (it hasn't been in the past, only funding measures) if a good portion of their constituents didn't have problem with the war.

Oh, and here's the wikipedia entry for protests against the Afghanistan war, for ONLY 2009:

On March 20, 2009, in the first large demonstration in Washington since Obama took office, thousands of Americans, some bearing mock coffins to protest war casualties, took the streets on the sixth anniversary of the 2003 Iraq invasion to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.[38]

More than 10,000 people marched on the Pentagon. Led by a contingent of Afghanistan and Iraq war veterans, the protesters proceeded on to the headquarters of major military-industrial corporations such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, and KBR, corporations that the demonstrators characterized as "merchants of death" and to which they sought to deliver symbolic coffins.[39]

In Los Angeles, thousands marched down Hollywood Boulevard to call for all U.S. troops to be brought home. A 4,000-strong crowd took part in the "Stop the Wars" march and rally.[38][40]

Another 4,000 people demonstrated in San Francisco.[39] Rallies against the wars similarly took place in New York City, San Diego, Saint Paul, Minneapolis, and other American cities.[38][41][42][43][44][45]

On March 28, 2009, up to 15,000 protesters marched through central London to demonstrate ahead of the G20 summit of world leaders. The Put People First march, organized by an alliance of more than 150 anti-war, environment, charity, labour, student, faith, and development groups, included calls for Western troops to pull out of Afghanistan and protesters chanting "What do we want? Jobs not bombs."[46]

On October 7, 2009, Students for a Democratic Society called a national day of action against the war in Afghanistan. Over 25 chapters of SDS planned and held various actions around the country.[47][48] A "Funk the War" march led by Rochester SDS was forcibly ended by the police, with 12 of the 60 marchers arrested and later released or bailed out.[49][50]

On the weekend of October 17-18, 2009, anti-war protests took place in 50 cities across the United States. In Boston, hundreds of protesters gathered at Copley Square to protest the war in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. Zoya, a 28-year-old Afghan woman spoke against the U.S.-led war in her country, saying her homeland does not need more foreign occupation. Suzette Abbot, carrying a sign that read "Yes We Can Get Out of Afghanistan", said "Obama needs to make good on his promises. We all worked to get him elected. Now he needs to earn that peace prize."[51][52][53]

In Minneapolis, 400 people marched, calling for an end to the U.S. war in Afghanistan and an end to the continued U.S. occupation of Iraq.[51]

The organizers in Minneapolis stated:

"President Obama is reported to be listening to the generals about the next steps in Afghanistan; he should be listening to the people, who want an end to the war."
"During the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, the U.S. government is spending billions for wars and occupations, while millions lose their jobs and housing and go without health insurance."

On October 24, 2009, more than 10,000 people marched through the streets of London in protest against the war, which they said is a futile and unwinnable conflict. Protesters called for the withdrawal of British troops from Afghanistan, gathering first at Speakers Corner, Hyde Park, before marching to Trafalgar Square. The number of British soldiers killed in the eight-year-long war was 222 at the time of the protest.[54][55][56][57][58]

Lance Cpl. Joe Glenton defied orders from his commanding officer to become the first serving soldier to openly attend a national anti-war demonstration. He stated:

"When I went to Afghanistan I was proud to serve the Army and to serve my country, but before long I realised the government as using the Army for its own ends."

"It is distressing to disobey orders, but when Britain follows America in continuing to wage war against one of the world's poorest countries I feel I have no choice."

Paul McGuirk, who served in Afghanistan until April 2008 but left the Army because he could not support the war in Afghanistan, said:

"I think the government should stop pretending it's a just war and wasting the lives of our guys, and stop pretending it's a winnable war."

The oldest protester taking part in the march, Hetty Bower, 104, lived through both World Wars and said she felt nothing has been learnt. She recalled seeing cheering young men as they marched to the trenches when she was nine-years-old.

"It didn't take long before we saw those men coming back missing legs and missing arms, totally blind and war was no longer fun."

On Saturday, November 14, 2009, around 1,000 people demonstrated against the war as NATO's parliamentary met in Edinburgh, Scotland while at the same time a poll showed that the majority 71% of Britons want British military forces withdrawn from Afghanistan within 12 months.[59][60]

On the same day, about 200 South Koreans in Seoul protested their government's plan to send troops to Afghanistan. Lee Jung-hee, a lawmaker with the opposition Democratic Labor Party said: "We should not fall into the swamp of the U.S. anti-terror war."[61]


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:07 pm 
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That enough?


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