Yeah your not winning nothing playing 35 games as a goalie when Millers stats are not too far off playing double the games

not really. blueandyellow was pointing to the team as much of the success of howard, when the success of the team is really because of howard. he was saying any goalie could come in and throw up good numbers because of detroits roster, when, no, you cant.

goalies have won veznias before even though they play little over half the season. i dont think rask will even be in the discussion, but when i see him play, and see his stats, i think hes the winner by a lot if he plays 10-15 more games. the kids a fucking superstar of the future. i DO NOT like the fact hes in the division.

_________________

ok, stop looking at the roster on yahoo.com. watch the games. lidstrom isnt winning any award anytime soon unless they create a "shell of his former self award." lidstroms still solid with the puck, but defensively, its becoming an adventure. ericsson has been hurt much of the year, kronwalls missed a long stretch of time, and kronwall is SUPER overrated. he makes a hit or two in the playoffs, and suddenly hes a star.

zetterberg has missed time, and hasnt been the same player as he has in the past, as has datsyuk (datsyuks unhappy in detroit, rumour has it) and franzen has missed most of the season, and holmstrom has missed severe time. no more hudler, or hossa. or samuelson.

this isnt the wings teams of the past. this is a boarderline team with a star goalie facing many breakaways and odd man rushes a game.

_________________

So who would have been more impressive then Nabby and Belfour?

When Nabakov won it, the only other rookie who had anything going for them was Brad Richards with 56 points in 82 games.

When Belfour won it, he won 43 games in 74 games played, and had 4 shutouts, he also won the Vezina, and Hart. The only other person who could have possibly won the award would have been Sergei Federov who had 79 points in 77 games played. Jagr was decent but wasn't a PPG player yet.

They deserved it completely because of their incredible play also, and no one really challenged them.

But this year they also have a 6'8" defensemen who almost has 50 points, who looks like an elite defender already and who will become one. Duchene is having a good year for a rookie but shouldn't win it because of how Myers and Howard are playing.

To me Myers gets to nod because of how young this guy is and how easily he made the jump from JUNIORS to the NHL. Howard has had 4 years of pro experience to develop.

_________________

"If Myers doesn't win rookie of the year, they should cancel the award."

Harry Neale.

NUFF SAID

This is what seals it for me.

Howard played 186 AHL games before he made it to the NHL full time. I get the 'goaltenders take longer' point, but the fact is that he's had longer to work on his game at a higher level of competition than Myers had.

Myers played 191 WHL games, and jumped right into a starting role in the NHL.
- He's played in every game this season.
- He's 3rd in overall points from rookies. As a defenseman.
- He leads ALL rookies in +/-.
- He leads ALL rookies who have played more than 12 games in icetime. (McBain from CAR is higher, but only with 12 games under his belt.)
- He leads ALL rookies in PK icetime.

Myers has done extremely well at the NHL level without multiple seasons of time working in the AHL. That gives him the edge in my opinion.

I watch Detroit games and highlights. I watch many team's highlights. Detroit has amazing D. Howard makes average saves and nothing more. He isn't a Broduer or a Hasek this year, he's an average goaltender on a Stanley cup contender team.

_________________
"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

That was great, considering the position Myers plays should give him extra weight. His +/-, TOI, and point total as of now should give him the nod over Matt Duchense

_________________
"...they came down into the stands and asked if I knew how to do play by play. I said...No. But. I'll take a shot at it if you want".- Rick Jeanneret

Great point. Mike, I agree with you that goalies take longer to develop, and you see them hitting their prime more toward their late 20s, but the fact that Myers was a 19-year-old kid who had played in 0 NHL games before this season is pretty damn remarkable. I can see why arguments can be made for Howard, but I think Myers is the prime candidate for Rookie of the Year.

_________________
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hockey Night in Buffalo

ok. well it seems that we can agree that you dont understand hockey outside that its played on ice. i can respect others opinions, but this may be the dumbest post of the history of these boards.

anyone who has watched detroit play, which apparently you havnt, can see howard is anything but average.

outside of this comment, i guess its in impasse.

_________________

Miller makes average saves. Not a vezina candidate. No sir. its our amazing D that never leaves him out to dry that's doing all the work.

If this were a normal year I think Howard is hands down the Calder winner, regardless of age. But since Myers has made his jump so impressively it's really a tossup. We'd all be disappointed if Myers lost, but we know we'll have him a lot longer then the Wings will have howard.

_________________
"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

Average saves? Maybe average saves in a league that stars Jesus as the top goaltender...

_________________
Keep your eyes focused this time. Keep us infront of your sights. I've waited long for this; our time to shine, I just hope we have the time.

ok irony failure on my part then. I thought it was fairly obvious I was joking when I talked about the D never leaving miller out to dry though...

Unless you're being ironic too, in which case oh hai.

_________________
"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

I caught it. I lol'd. Not a failure at all.

And also, basically, what Tom posted is how I feel. It's been my point of consternation for a while now.

People who don't like Myers point out he's the rookie with the most giveaways and is top 5 in the NHL, but he's a + player, so it's not like he's giving up Kalinin-esque turnovers.

_________________
mechaphil

bingo! this i can respect and even give you a high five on.

also, miller does make average saves, because he is in position. as is howard. a goalie who has to make wild saves is generally out of position. unless you are hasek, and its all by design.

_________________

Anyways...

I guess I have to feel that a "rookie is a rookie", regardless of age, and it may well be that age isn't a determining factor anyways. If Howard played well enough to win it, then give it to him, as long as he meets the criteria. Same for Duchene.

Oh ya, I think Detroit will actually be a strong playoff team if healthy(key point). Very strong. This notion they can't play their system, and everyone sucks now is getting pretty overblown here. We'll see soon enough.

Yes, they are not a bad team, but they are by no means anywhere as good as they once were.

_________________
"Call a cop he robbed Delmore blind!!!"
Rick Jeanerette after Marty Biron's diving save back in 2000.

"I'm going to go to the spa and have a hot tub and massage and relax," Miller said. "That's it, and it's back to work tomorrow." Ryan Miller after clinching the North East division.

youd be surprised. having watched the past 3 years, almost every game, its noticeable. all the guys listed above have dropped off, especially lidstrom. thats what makes howard even that much more special.

i might get strung up for this, but i truly believe miller is the best american born goalie ever, and howard will overtake him soon. when i watch howard, he has that much skill. if he puts it all together, hes going to be very special. and he might not either.

_________________

That is to me the only reason Myers should win it over Howard.

If Myers had played 2 years or even one in the AHL, then Howard wins hands down. But playing defense without any pro experience at all gives him my vote.

If Howard wins the Calder great for him, I'll be disappointed of course, but You can't deny how great of a season our 20 year old Defender is having, and he will only get better is the scariest part.

_________________

I don't like the total giveaways stat for a number of reasons.

1. Players with more ice time are prone to having more giveaways.
2. Some players play against top talent and are forced into turnovers. Others just do stupid crap with the puck.

If you took Myer's total TOI for the season and divided it by his number of giveaways, that'd give you how many giveaways he commits per minute of ice time, and if you compared those numbers to other players, he won't be so far up there.

I made this point when someone compared Roy's giveaways to Afinogenov's. Roy's total giveaways number was way higher than Max's, but Roy's giveaway per minute number was less than one, while Max's was 2 or 3.

_________________
Wheelhouse