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sabretoothpick
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:07 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Vanek isn't as bad on defense as his used to be. He is an efficient PKer, him and Kaleta paired together led to a shg more than once I believe and was very effective.

In two games in 08/09 (the season Vanek was on an absurd goal-scoring tear), it led to one SHG and two other chances.


Wasn't that the season Lindy said he wants to turn Vanek into one of the best 2-way-players in the league. :think: That was a short project.

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daz28
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:09 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Thing about Vanek on the PK is, no one knows why he was stopped playing on it. His PK unit was entirely successful those three or four games, and we've never seen Vanek on a regular PK shift since.

I guess we'll all have to assume once again that the 'powers that be' are so much smarter than us.

On a side note: not that this means shit, but the Ducks have been playing Ryan and Perry on the PK this year, and they are doing well. Not comparing them to Vanek, but they are similar guys you wouldn't expect on the PK.
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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:14 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Thomas Vanek in games in which he's played 20+ minutes:

37gp, 25g, 10a, 35 pts.


Take out his rookie year and its the same stats in 34 games played.



To me, all those numbers mean is that the more power play chances the Sabres get, the more productive Vanek is offensively. Not very surprising but keep digging. ;)


You're making a bit of a leap. More icetime can be indicative of more power play time, but not always.


More like a safe assumption. He's certainly not going to get more production because of PK time, and I find it hard to imagine him finding a torrid scoring pace due to a few double shifts. In fact, I think from what I have seen this season he may need even LESS ice time to get better quality shifts out of him. I'm tired of seeing him take long leisurely skates while en-route to a forecheck.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:18 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Thing about Vanek on the PK is, no one knows why he was stopped playing on it. His PK unit was entirely successful those three or four games, and we've never seen Vanek on a regular PK shift since.


I would NEVER play my stars on the PK, not in this day and age with graphite one piece sticks and the shot power those guys muster. In hockey, enough bad things can happen to your stud snipers, don't increase the risk with shattered feet. Leave that to the grunts, because the grunts live for it and they know how to block shots better.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:20 pm 
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The skates are built so well nowadays that a shot off the foot would only hurt if it hit near the toes, the ankle ares are so padded you wouldn't feel it, and if you do it's only for a few minutes.

And you always face the shots so the puck can only hit the shin pads and not the back of the legs.

I would play my stars on the PK, because sometimes they are your best options on the PK. Mike Richards and Claude Giroux are Flyer stars, well Giroux will be and Richards is, but he is an animal on the PK.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
The skates are built so well nowadays that a shot off the foot would only hurt if it hit near the toes, the ankle ares are so padded you wouldn't feel it, and if you do it's only for a few minutes.

And you always face the shots so the puck can only hit the shin pads and not the back of the legs.

I would play my stars on the PK, because sometimes they are your best options on the PK. Mike Richards and Claude Giroux are Flyer stars, well Giroux will be and Richards is, but he is an animal on the PK.


I want balls out shot blockers who skate like they are engulfed in flame for fear of riding AHL buses killing penalties for my team. That's how I roll. And I want my stars safe, rested, and healthy, chomping at the bit to get out there and score.

I don't care if they are wearing chain mail armor and carrying tower shields, why risk it?

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:36 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
Thing about Vanek on the PK is, no one knows why he was stopped playing on it. His PK unit was entirely successful those three or four games, and we've never seen Vanek on a regular PK shift since.


I would NEVER play my stars on the PK, not in this day and age with graphite one piece sticks and the shot power those guys muster. In hockey, enough bad things can happen to your stud snipers, don't increase the risk with shattered feet. Leave that to the grunts, because the grunts live for it and they know how to block shots better.


The top 5 PK teams in the league disagree Boston - Chara ($7.5M), Montreal - Gomez ($7.4M), Nashville - Erat/Legwand ($4.5M), Pittsburgh - Crosby ($8.7M), and Washington - Backstrom/Semin ($6.7/$6.0M) disagree with you as all of these player see moderate to significant PK time.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:38 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.



3rd and 4th liners can score too, and it's a long, long season. The more your stars are on the PK=the greater the risk of injury=scoring droughts=losses="Do you want fries with that?".

No thank you. lol

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:40 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
Thing about Vanek on the PK is, no one knows why he was stopped playing on it. His PK unit was entirely successful those three or four games, and we've never seen Vanek on a regular PK shift since.


I would NEVER play my stars on the PK, not in this day and age with graphite one piece sticks and the shot power those guys muster. In hockey, enough bad things can happen to your stud snipers, don't increase the risk with shattered feet. Leave that to the grunts, because the grunts live for it and they know how to block shots better.


The top 5 PK teams in the league disagree Boston - Chara ($7.5M), Montreal - Gomez ($7.4M), Nashville - Erat/Legwand ($4.5M), Pittsburgh - Crosby ($8.7M), and Washington - Backstrom/Semin ($6.7/$6.0M) disagree with you as all of these player see moderate to significant PK time.



I don't feel the same about defense men, you have to play them on the PK sometimes.

As for the forwards:

1. They block shots like flamingos.
2. The coaches are flat out wrong. :snooty:

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:43 pm 
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They aren't wrong when they have a top 5 PK in the league then.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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daz28
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:44 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:

As for the forwards:

1. They block shots like flamingos.

I'll agree with this. Wayyyy to often these guys 'let'(pun intended) shots by. If the forward isn't willing to eat a puck for breakfast, lunch, dinner, or midnight snack, then don't put him out there on the PK. Your just adding another guy to screen your goalie.
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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:46 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.



3rd and 4th liners can score too, and it's a long, long season. The more your stars are on the PK=the greater the risk of injury=scoring droughts=losses="Do you want fries with that?".

No thank you. lol


I'm trying to think of a Sabres injury that has occurred on the PK and I can't come up with anything. I don't think the likelihood of injury on the penalty kill is higher than at any other point in the hockey game. Cycling the puck for shots from the point is not exclusive to the pk. Also, on the penalty kill the attention is on disrupting passing lanes and giving the goalie a clean view of the puck since it's better to see a frozen puck and a faceoff than it is a bizarro deflection or a screened goaltender.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:02 pm 
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daz28 wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:

As for the forwards:

1. They block shots like flamingos.

I'll agree with this. Wayyyy to often these guys 'let'(pun intended) shots by. If the forward isn't willing to eat a puck for breakfast, lunch, dinner, or midnight snack, then don't put him out there on the PK. Your just adding another guy to screen your goalie.



Amen brother.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:04 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.



3rd and 4th liners can score too, and it's a long, long season. The more your stars are on the PK=the greater the risk of injury=scoring droughts=losses="Do you want fries with that?".

No thank you. lol


I'm trying to think of a Sabres injury that has occurred on the PK and I can't come up with anything. I don't think the likelihood of injury on the penalty kill is higher than at any other point in the hockey game. Cycling the puck for shots from the point is not exclusive to the pk. Also, on the penalty kill the attention is on disrupting passing lanes and giving the goalie a clean view of the puck since it's better to see a frozen puck and a faceoff than it is a bizarro deflection or a screened goaltender.


A guy might only get his foot shattered 1/career, but if that happens to one of my top scorers while Johnny Shot Block is resting on the bench then I suck at coaching. End of story.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:29 pm 
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X-pensfan wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.



3rd and 4th liners can score too, and it's a long, long season. The more your stars are on the PK=the greater the risk of injury=scoring droughts=losses="Do you want fries with that?".

No thank you. lol


I'm trying to think of a Sabres injury that has occurred on the PK and I can't come up with anything. I don't think the likelihood of injury on the penalty kill is higher than at any other point in the hockey game. Cycling the puck for shots from the point is not exclusive to the pk. Also, on the penalty kill the attention is on disrupting passing lanes and giving the goalie a clean view of the puck since it's better to see a frozen puck and a faceoff than it is a bizarro deflection or a screened goaltender.


A guy might only get his foot shattered 1/career, but if that happens to one of my top scorers while Johnny Shot Block is resting on the bench then I suck at coaching. End of story.


I don't disagree with the reasoning, I disagree with the evidence you're using, which I think hurts your argument.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:30 pm 
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When was the last time a guy shattered his foot while blocking a shot in today's NHL?

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.
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Timbo Slice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:44 pm 
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Sometimes a guy just needs some time to get his game going. Vanek has to play 20+ minutes a night. I'm not sure if those stats mean that when he plays more he produces more, or that when he plays well he plays more....but he needs to get around 20 minutes a night, every night.
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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:46 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.



3rd and 4th liners can score too, and it's a long, long season. The more your stars are on the PK=the greater the risk of injury=scoring droughts=losses="Do you want fries with that?".

No thank you. lol


I'm trying to think of a Sabres injury that has occurred on the PK and I can't come up with anything. I don't think the likelihood of injury on the penalty kill is higher than at any other point in the hockey game. Cycling the puck for shots from the point is not exclusive to the pk. Also, on the penalty kill the attention is on disrupting passing lanes and giving the goalie a clean view of the puck since it's better to see a frozen puck and a faceoff than it is a bizarro deflection or a screened goaltender.


A guy might only get his foot shattered 1/career, but if that happens to one of my top scorers while Johnny Shot Block is resting on the bench then I suck at coaching. End of story.


I don't disagree with the reasoning, I disagree with the evidence you're using, which I think hurts your argument.


What argument? That's what I believe in, plain and simple. All attempts to sway me will fail, as evident by this very thread.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:53 am 
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X-pensfan wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
X-pensfan wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Because sometimes your best penalty killers are the ones who comprise of your superstars who block shots like it's their job yet can still score.



3rd and 4th liners can score too, and it's a long, long season. The more your stars are on the PK=the greater the risk of injury=scoring droughts=losses="Do you want fries with that?".

No thank you. lol


I'm trying to think of a Sabres injury that has occurred on the PK and I can't come up with anything. I don't think the likelihood of injury on the penalty kill is higher than at any other point in the hockey game. Cycling the puck for shots from the point is not exclusive to the pk. Also, on the penalty kill the attention is on disrupting passing lanes and giving the goalie a clean view of the puck since it's better to see a frozen puck and a faceoff than it is a bizarro deflection or a screened goaltender.


A guy might only get his foot shattered 1/career, but if that happens to one of my top scorers while Johnny Shot Block is resting on the bench then I suck at coaching. End of story.


I don't disagree with the reasoning, I disagree with the evidence you're using, which I think hurts your argument.


What argument? That's what I believe in, plain and simple. All attempts to sway me will fail, as evident by this very thread.


The assumptions that players are more likely to get hurt on the pk, or that more injuries occur on the pk... :roll:

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