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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:47 pm 
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sabresindc wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Tell me how you evaluate a team 6 months?

Most teams, it takes about 3-4 years when major changes or a full rebuild happens before they find the winning ways consistently.

How is it Terry Pegula doesn't the same time frame other clubs get, he only gets half a year?

Slick, who here every expected a massive turnaround this season????

Me personally i thought after some serious offseason retooling and a bigger expectation from management down to the players that all would step up and take the next step but instead they have taken a lot of steps back plus they are one of the highest paid teams in the league and the so called core players were getting out done by ahl players from Rochester. Their record at home is bad and when Lucic destroyed miller and no-one did anything that spoke volumes of this team.


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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:25 am 
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Terry Pegula did the only thing hockey related that he knew of - he bought the fucking team, and gave them as much money as they wanted. To blame anything else on him is ludicrous.

It would be like you hiring contractors to build a house and then the inspector blaming you for using the wrong gauge wire. Yeah, its your responsibility, but it sure as shit ain't your fault.

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Holy fucking fuck...Boyes couldn't suck a dick if it landed in his mouth.


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ksquier89
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:24 am 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Terry Pegula did the only thing hockey related that he knew of - he bought the fucking team, and gave them as much money as they wanted. To blame anything else on him is ludicrous.

It would be like you hiring contractors to build a house and then the inspector blaming you for using the wrong gauge wire. Yeah, its your responsibility, but it sure as shit ain't your fault.


^^100%

He should be treated as a partner in a business in a limited liability manner. The only way you could speak ill of him is if he had the money but did not spend or reinvest his money with the team. He hires people to work on his behalf because he knows his knowledge in certain areas is limited and that he is certainly not inept enough to build a winner. He opened his wallet and said build me a winner. Upper management is entirely to blame for misuse of this mans GENEROSITY.


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DieHardFan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:35 pm 
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I dunno. Two years ago we had a 3rd seeded team with a Vezina winner and a rookie of the year, and lost a tough 1st round matchup when our top scorer went down. Last year, we had an incredible 2nd half of the season, came within an OT goal of beating the 2nd seeded team in the playoffs, with a weak defense to boot.

At the time, it was reasonable not blow up the entire house, but instead add pieces that would improve already good team with some flaws. Regehr and Ehrloff looked like good additions to the position (D) that just about everyone seemed to think was the primary weakness. Now that it's not working out very well halfway through his first full season as owner, a ton of people are blaming and hating on TP for not recognizing that his team sucked and start rebuilding from scratch.

To me, TP's skill as an owner will be all about what he does after THIS season IF the team fails to achieve any major goals, NOT what he didn't do last year with a pretty good looking team.

Nothing like 20-20 hindsight, eh?


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:01 pm 
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I don't fault Pegula at all. I have the same take on the last few seasons as you do, and I agreed with the moves Regier made this past summer. The on-ice product the last three months comes down to a few (not all or even most) players that just aren't good enough or have a Cup winning attitude/work ethic, and a coach that can't get the best out of his roster while the rest of the league possibly has his number. I won't grade or judge Pegula until after the summer.

Basically -
Ruff/Regier believe the failure is all about injuries and make minor tweaks, and they stay on = BAD
Ruff/Regier realize their moves failed and make major changes to personnel and system, and stay on = OK/GOOD
Ruff/Regier get replaced and the new coach/GM rebuild from ground up = GOOD

That's my grading system in a nutshell.


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Howie Hodge
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:11 pm 
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(I don't agree with The Bills bit; but otherwise...)

Terry Pegula needs action, not lame excuses

By Jerry Sullivan

News Senior Sports Columnist


Updated: January 15, 2012, 11:40 PM

Six months ago, when Terry Pegula was gussying up the locker room and spending on new players, it would have been hard to imagine. But I'm more optimistic about the immediate future of the Bills than the Sabres.

The Bills missed the playoffs again, true, but at least they know who they are. A week ago, General Manager Buddy Nix sat with the media and gave an honest evaluation of his team. Nix identified the Bills' many shortcomings and acknowledged that he needed to get better players and spend to the cap.

I'm still not sold on Nix. But at least he acknowledged the team's problems and didn't dwell on the injury excuse. Fans came away feeling encouraged that the team might finally be on the right path.

Two days later, Terry Pegula went public and ladled out a bunch of excuses for his sorry, sinking team. Even a diehard fan would have expected some level of dismay with the team's miserable first half. Instead, the owner blamed it on injuries, providing a convenient cover for his GM, coach and players.

The Sabres have had an uncommon run of injuries. But a lot of NHL teams have suffered injuries. The tough teams rise above them. I don't hear the Penguins crying about Sidney Crosby. Rather than call for accountability from his stale underachievers, Pegula handed them a gold-plated set of crutches. Go ahead, boys, feel sorry for yourselves.

Pegula called the Sabres' injuries "catastrophic," a "plague." He compared the team to Humpty Dumpty. Does he know how sophomoric he sounds? The owner cares deeply about his team. But he comes off like some starry-eyed fan who swallows whatever management feeds him and sees critics as the enemy.

This comes as no surprise. On the day he took over last February, Pegula met with our editorial board. It was stunning how naive and defensive he was about criticism. He said his daughter, a pro tennis player, would quit if she was subjected to the sort of criticism we leveled at the Sabres.

Pegula actually said our coverage was hurting the Sabres. I felt embarrassed for him. It's one thing to be a fan. But this wasn't what objective Sabres fans had in mind, an owner with blind faith in Lindy Ruff and Darcy Regier. They "ain't going nowhere," he said, as if it were silly to think otherwise.

Last month, when Pegula ripped his goaltending after a loss in Pittsburgh, I thought he might be losing patience and ready to make changes. His next move was to endorse a stale, boring product. I suspect no major changes are in store, even if they miss the playoffs.

They're in big trouble. The Sabres have lost a team-record eight straight road games in regulation. They're five points out of eighth, but five points out of 15th. Why couldn't they finish last? They're 1-6 against Carolina, Tampa Bay and the Islanders, currently the last three teams in the conference.

Tonight, they begin a four-game road stretch against foes with a combined home record of 65-18-9. That's a daunting stretch for a team that hasn't won two straight games in more than two months, going back to Milan Lucic's hit on Ryan Miller in Boston on Nov. 12.

Go ahead. Blame injuries. But at some point, Pegula has to understand that his team is in dire need of an overhaul. He has a GM and a coach who have been joined at the hip since 1997. Larry Quinn hired Regier and Ruff and re-empowered them in his second term. As long as they're here, this remains Quinn's team.

Pegula is in denial. Spending to the cap doesn't guarantee a thing. People in the league are laughing at the Sabres. I said he should have fired Regier the minute he took over the team. He thought I was crazy. By keeping Regier, he lost a year in which he could have begun a genuine change in the culture.

The Sabres' problems go much deeper than injuries. Humpty Dumpty? Pegula needs different horses and men to put it back together again. For too long, the Sabres have been a reflection of their GM. Now, it starts to relect the owner.

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Howie Hodge
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:14 pm 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Terry Pegula did the only thing hockey related that he knew of - he bought the fucking team, and gave them as much money as they wanted. To blame anything else on him is ludicrous.

It would be like you hiring contractors to build a house and then the inspector blaming you for using the wrong gauge wire. Yeah, its your responsibility, but it sure as shit ain't your fault.


This team has had the same "wiring" for years. It's not like anythings new.

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-Bowler, imitating Freddy Blassie, at the very first M & G.


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backthatSASSup
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:51 pm 
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DieHardFan wrote:
I dunno. Two years ago we had a 3rd seeded team with a Vezina winner and a rookie of the year, and lost a tough 1st round matchup when our top scorer went down. Last year, we had an incredible 2nd half of the season, came within an OT goal of beating the 2nd seeded team in the playoffs, with a weak defense to boot.

At the time, it was reasonable not blow up the entire house, but instead add pieces that would improve already good team with some flaws. Regehr and Ehrloff looked like good additions to the position (D) that just about everyone seemed to think was the primary weakness. Now that it's not working out very well halfway through his first full season as owner, a ton of people are blaming and hating on TP for not recognizing that his team sucked and start rebuilding from scratch.

To me, TP's skill as an owner will be all about what he does after THIS season IF the team fails to achieve any major goals, NOT what he didn't do last year with a pretty good looking team.

Nothing like 20-20 hindsight, eh?


Good analysis. I agree with you.


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SabresBillsFan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Howie Hodge wrote:
(I don't agree with The Bills bit; but otherwise...)

Terry Pegula needs action, not lame excuses

By Jerry Sullivan

News Senior Sports Columnist


Updated: January 15, 2012, 11:40 PM

Six months ago, when Terry Pegula was gussying up the locker room and spending on new players, it would have been hard to imagine. But I'm more optimistic about the immediate future of the Bills than the Sabres.

The Bills missed the playoffs again, true, but at least they know who they are. A week ago, General Manager Buddy Nix sat with the media and gave an honest evaluation of his team. Nix identified the Bills' many shortcomings and acknowledged that he needed to get better players and spend to the cap.

I'm still not sold on Nix. But at least he acknowledged the team's problems and didn't dwell on the injury excuse. Fans came away feeling encouraged that the team might finally be on the right path.

Two days later, Terry Pegula went public and ladled out a bunch of excuses for his sorry, sinking team. Even a diehard fan would have expected some level of dismay with the team's miserable first half. Instead, the owner blamed it on injuries, providing a convenient cover for his GM, coach and players.

The Sabres have had an uncommon run of injuries. But a lot of NHL teams have suffered injuries. The tough teams rise above them. I don't hear the Penguins crying about Sidney Crosby. Rather than call for accountability from his stale underachievers, Pegula handed them a gold-plated set of crutches. Go ahead, boys, feel sorry for yourselves.

Pegula called the Sabres' injuries "catastrophic," a "plague." He compared the team to Humpty Dumpty. Does he know how sophomoric he sounds? The owner cares deeply about his team. But he comes off like some starry-eyed fan who swallows whatever management feeds him and sees critics as the enemy.

This comes as no surprise. On the day he took over last February, Pegula met with our editorial board. It was stunning how naive and defensive he was about criticism. He said his daughter, a pro tennis player, would quit if she was subjected to the sort of criticism we leveled at the Sabres.

Pegula actually said our coverage was hurting the Sabres. I felt embarrassed for him. It's one thing to be a fan. But this wasn't what objective Sabres fans had in mind, an owner with blind faith in Lindy Ruff and Darcy Regier. They "ain't going nowhere," he said, as if it were silly to think otherwise.

Last month, when Pegula ripped his goaltending after a loss in Pittsburgh, I thought he might be losing patience and ready to make changes. His next move was to endorse a stale, boring product. I suspect no major changes are in store, even if they miss the playoffs.

They're in big trouble. The Sabres have lost a team-record eight straight road games in regulation. They're five points out of eighth, but five points out of 15th. Why couldn't they finish last? They're 1-6 against Carolina, Tampa Bay and the Islanders, currently the last three teams in the conference.

Tonight, they begin a four-game road stretch against foes with a combined home record of 65-18-9. That's a daunting stretch for a team that hasn't won two straight games in more than two months, going back to Milan Lucic's hit on Ryan Miller in Boston on Nov. 12.

Go ahead. Blame injuries. But at some point, Pegula has to understand that his team is in dire need of an overhaul. He has a GM and a coach who have been joined at the hip since 1997. Larry Quinn hired Regier and Ruff and re-empowered them in his second term. As long as they're here, this remains Quinn's team.

Pegula is in denial. Spending to the cap doesn't guarantee a thing. People in the league are laughing at the Sabres. I said he should have fired Regier the minute he took over the team. He thought I was crazy. By keeping Regier, he lost a year in which he could have begun a genuine change in the culture.

The Sabres' problems go much deeper than injuries. Humpty Dumpty? Pegula needs different horses and men to put it back together again. For too long, the Sabres have been a reflection of their GM. Now, it starts to relect the owner.

Very well written


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:33 pm 
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So did anyone think we'd be in this position at the start of the year?

If any of you did, then you're not fans of the team at all or fully lying about it. We ended strong, and we ALL thought we got better this offseason. No one really argued the moves made, just more money than anything.

Yet, we started out pretty good in the beginning of this year, then faltered when November hit.

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Howie Hodge
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:52 pm 
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I don't think anyone expected the team to tank this badly; no. Not on here, and not on any of the other sites.

Many of us expressed our strong opinions that it was a mistake to retain The Two Stooges; but you'd have thought the money spent would have kept us at around 6'th or 7'th at least.

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Vanek_Fanatic_26
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:52 pm 
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While the other teams were getting better, we were staying status quo with some flashy moves. Same core. Same coach. Same GM. Same passionless attitude.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:55 am 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
So did anyone think we'd be in this position at the start of the year?


Nope.

But nobody here is surprised by it, either, because this is the same old BS we've seen with this coach/GM/core group of players.

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Jammerz04
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:34 am 
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Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
A grueling road trip against pretty good teams, and then a Feb schedule full of games against NYR, Bos, Phi, NJ, with the only "winnable" games against Wpg, and at home to NYI or Mon. March and April isn't any better either.

Hopefully they will drop like a rock to get a top five draft position, and will be so far out of contention that Regier has no choice but to sell off Hecht, Boyes (even though he's better than Stafford), maybe Gaustad too, and even trade Roy and a few d-men that other teams may want for a playoff run.

Use the mid-range draft picks from these trades and the high 1st rd pick to draft Galchenyuk for C and build for a another day. I'd say "better" day, but that would require a new coach/GM.


Good idea I'd also throw Miller in as a player that must be traded... Guy will be 32 starting next season and his stock can only go lower on a shittier team. Maybe not by deadline but sometime during draft day to maybe get another top 5 pick or someone who can help this team... I doubt anyone take Stafford unless of course you give the other team a reason to trade for him. Ennis can be used as incentive he's got good potential and teams know that so him coupled with Stafford would bring a nice return. I wouldn't mind trading Leopold this year at deadline lots of NHL teams looking for puck moving D-men... Sekera also fits the bill....

All in all I'm hoping for record losses we need a top pick plus hopefully all this losing can bring in a coaching change. And when I say coaching change I mean a complete overhaul no more Patrick or Adams. Everyone goes and bring in someone new...

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:06 am 
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Here's the thing that bothers me about Jerry's article.... he talks about the Penguins losing Crosby. Sure. But that's a total of what, 38 man-games lost so far this year? We've had over 200. Not saying that injuries are a valid excuse, I'm just being pedantic about the article.

I also don't believe Regier is the problem. Before we were overpaying players to come here, he made some great trades. The reason he's asking so much in return for our players is because he's stuck in a shit sandwich. When our garbage contracts finally die out and we can move those players, I think we'll be in a good position again. At least that's what I hope. Because we know "Lindy ain't goin nowhere", and Darcy is probably tied in that as well.

Let me pose this question though - would you rather ship out players and receive less, just to be rid of those players? To me, it seems like that's cutting off one's nose to spite your face. Yes, I would be behind buying out someone like (Boyes, Stafford, or Leino), just to show the team they're not safe, but I wouldn't start down a reckless path.

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Holy fucking fuck...Boyes couldn't suck a dick if it landed in his mouth.


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SABRESAllTheWay
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:41 am 
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Jammerz04 wrote:
Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
A grueling road trip against pretty good teams, and then a Feb schedule full of games against NYR, Bos, Phi, NJ, with the only "winnable" games against Wpg, and at home to NYI or Mon. March and April isn't any better either.

Hopefully they will drop like a rock to get a top five draft position, and will be so far out of contention that Regier has no choice but to sell off Hecht, Boyes (even though he's better than Stafford), maybe Gaustad too, and even trade Roy and a few d-men that other teams may want for a playoff run.

Use the mid-range draft picks from these trades and the high 1st rd pick to draft Galchenyuk for C and build for a another day. I'd say "better" day, but that would require a new coach/GM.


Good idea I'd also throw Miller in as a player that must be traded... Guy will be 32 starting next season and his stock can only go lower on a shittier team. Maybe not by deadline but sometime during draft day to maybe get another top 5 pick or someone who can help this team... I doubt anyone take Stafford unless of course you give the other team a reason to trade for him. Ennis can be used as incentive he's got good potential and teams know that so him coupled with Stafford would bring a nice return. I wouldn't mind trading Leopold this year at deadline lots of NHL teams looking for puck moving D-men... Sekera also fits the bill....

All in all I'm hoping for record losses we need a top pick plus hopefully all this losing can bring in a coaching change. And when I say coaching change I mean a complete overhaul no more Patrick or Adams. Everyone goes and bring in someone new...

Wow, Miller, for the 101'st time. I don't think ANYONE saw this coming.

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ksquier89
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:03 am 
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NYIntensity wrote:
Yes, I would be behind buying out someone like (Boyes, Stafford, or Leino), just to show the team they're not safe, but I wouldn't start down a reckless path.


Sabres are already traveling down a wreckless path. Use any means necessary to stir this cauldron of crap. ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Strip Pominville of his C(been saying this for awhile now) Strip Stafford and Roy of their A's. Only member of this core who plays like they deserve a letter on their jersey is Vanek. If that does not work trade one of your core players right away.

Readjusted Captains and Assistant Captains

Captain:Vanek

Assistants:
Goose
Pominville(not a vocal leader)
Gerbe
Either Hecht or Regehr with the last A


Changing leadership midseason should be a wake up call for everyone.


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sabresindc
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:07 am 
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I say do nothing. This season is finished and I don't give a shit what anyone says about it being just January. There is nothing that can be done RIGHT NOW to fix it and make this team a contender...NOTHING. I say let them fall into the abyss and then, come April, start blowing things up.

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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ksquier89
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:29 am 
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sabresindc wrote:
I say do nothing. This season is finished and I don't give a shit what anyone says about it being just January. There is nothing that can be done RIGHT NOW to fix it and make this team a contender...NOTHING. I say let them fall into the abyss and then, come April, start blowing things up.


Nuke it. :lol: But seriously, 3 more weeks of this and I say nuke it as well.


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sabresindc
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:09 pm 
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ksquier89 wrote:
sabresindc wrote:
I say do nothing. This season is finished and I don't give a shit what anyone says about it being just January. There is nothing that can be done RIGHT NOW to fix it and make this team a contender...NOTHING. I say let them fall into the abyss and then, come April, start blowing things up.


Nuke it. :lol: But seriously, 3 more weeks of this and I say nuke it as well.

I seriously don't see the Sabres winning 25 games, which they would need to possibly squeak into the playoffs. If they do then they would be spent for the playoffs. I'm done with this team for the rest of the season....$200 bucks down the tubes

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sabretoothpick wrote:
Yhoshi wrote:
wollt ihr die sabres oben sehen müsst ihr die tabelle drehn.

It's a phrase that basically means, if you wanna see the Sabres at the top, turn the rankings.


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