It's a message/opinion board, not a biostatistics seminar. It's an opinion. Try stating one. Your bashing of opinions and perceptions that aren't backed up by scientific evidence have grown tiresome.

yes there are always outliers, you know how statistics work.

how often does that happen? note "fairly strong correlation" =/= physical law

I don't disagree, but I don't think there's a direct correlation between shot differential and offensive zone time. Unfortunately there's no stats kept for offensive zone time, so I can't prove/disprove this idea.

At the root of it all, I am just not going to compare the Sabres performance in something like this to another team unless I have some empirical way to do so. Just saying 'well I watch them and that's what I think' isn't enough for me.

that's fine, but statistics are not how coaches identify problems either. no, we're not coaches, but it's the same methodology. that's how a lot of analysis works. my entire job is quantification without much empirical data. i go out and collect some indicator data, and i make assessments on the whole from that datum. if there are no statistics or numerical data there, you can't just pretend it doesn't exist. all scientific methodologies apply to qualitative observation first.

I'd actually be willing to say they're even +/- about 5 minutes almost every game....I don't think our zone time is bad, I think we've got a terrible habit of waiting for perfect shots, instead of getting pucks on net and getting dirty and beat up a little.

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And I agree with that. In this case, my issues start with the first sentence of the first post.



So, how are we making this comparison? I watch a lot of Sabres games. I also watch a lot of other NHL games. (Almost always have the NHL Network on in my home office when I'm working at night. Which is a lot.)

In all this hockey I watch, I don't see any observable evidence that the Sabres are consistently any better or worse in clearing the zone than any other team. They seem to have good moments and bad moments (and games) just like everyone else does.

In the absence of any observable difference, the only way to truly compare it is statistically, and those numbers just aren't there.

(Of course, I can't just say 'I don't see the same thing', because that simply starts an internet fight, and I have no interest in those.)

It's game and team dependent. Yes, all teams have games where they're tired or had rough stretch of games. That's understandable but the last two games looked almost exactly like how they played before the ASG. Their passing was horrendous (several times in the last two games I saw them pass directly to the opposing players), they not getting good scoring chances, and they making just stupid mistakes and taking dumb penalties. All signs of a lack of concentration and a lack of work ethic.

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Isn't there a TOA (Time on attack) stat?

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"Counting all the assholes in the room, I'm definitely not alone!" ~ Michael Poulsen, Volbeat, Still Standing.

no, they don't track it anymore. Only on video games

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That's only on the NHL games. Not in the actual NHL.

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Fair enough. Key word in first sentence: "Seems". That's my observation, my perception. That's me screaming at my television and my visceral reaction as a fan of an underachieving team with a poor record, trying to understand why this team plays mediocre hockey and wondering if their difficulties in exiting the defensive zone reflect Lindy's system and are contributing to poor end results. Which was kind of the point of this post before you started clamoring for evidence.

The Sabres should employ a tighter trapping system.

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"I love that you know how to do that." Cheryl/Carol/Crystal

"And I love that I have an erection that doesn't involve homeless people." Kreiger

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