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daz28
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:48 pm 
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sabresEH wrote:
daz28 wrote:
sabresEH wrote:
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ok, so if I 'routinely' punch someone in the face, everyone will ignore the fact I kneed him in the face on his way down? This dude practically threw a guy who's knee he just stunned into the boards, he will miss considerable time. My fucking argument is legit, and all this, "you never took a routine hack" bs if for the birds.

Your twisting my words a bit but that's alright. I smoked my joint I'm in a calmer place. But you my friend are acting as if Boychuk had this thing planned out. It's a fast game and he made fast choices. Went for the hack, went to finish the check(its playoff hockey), both men fall and Thomas gets the worst of it being in front.

Well, I had to smoke to chill too(mostly from Vanek not the debate), but I just don't want the 'finishing' aspect to be overlooked. As I said, one injury LED to the other. You'd think he'd have been ok with the slash to stun w/o the boarding. It's like fish in a barrel. Maybe the playoffs got the best of his emotions, but he certainly deserves an ass whipping for his momentary lapse of reason. If he had a history, I'd suspend him.

I'm having trouble understanding the bolded part. If you mean what I think you mean and that your asking me would he have been ok if it was just a hack and no falling into the boards? The answer is yes imo. It would have stung and he may have gone to the dressing rom for attn but he would have been back. If you meant something else please explain.


He seemed to make sure Thomas had a rough ride into the boards. Why? He was already out of the play, right. Maybe he intended to hurt him??

Anyhows, I've made my point, and can't really take it any further. Hopefully I will get over this within the next 2 weeks. Every time I think hockey, I will think Sabres, then Sabres w/o Vanek. I waited 3 fuckin years for some jackass to pull this??


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gr8daygo
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:52 pm 
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daz28 wrote:
gr8daygo wrote:
Just giving me 2 cents on what i saw... I have never played.... although I have a pretty extensive orthopedic background.... If you watch the play in slow motion... you can easily see where the hack occurs... you can plainly see TV's right knee buckle, in (pushed medially).... at the point of the hack... I don't care what equipment he has on, the knee is NOT supposed to go left to right and it doesn't take much force to blow a knee out when its slightly bent and a side force is applied.... exactly the hit TV took... the least damage would be a sprain of the MCL or LCL and obviously the worst could be multiple ligament issues....

So then this is best case scenario, right? I mean it has to be better than damage from an abrupt stop(hitting the boards). The forces are so much less from the hack...??

right?

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Participation Status
Return to activity is dependant on the severity of the MCL sprain. Progression through rehab along with pain levels will also determine when an athlete is permitted to return to participation. An athlete should be functionally tested to make sure drills such as cutting and pivoting will not cause further injury. With a grade I MCL sprain, athletes will return to full play after up to 10- 14. Grade II MCL sprains will keep athletes out of play for about 3 weeks and grade III sprains will keep athletes out for an average of 5 weeks. Each athlete is different with progression and if progression is slow, re-evaluation for other injuries is necessary.



well best case is its a charlie horse or nasty bruise... but the way his knee buckles, is not pretty... Sid got away with a pretty nasty hack earlier this year... and it looked a ton worse than TV's... so there is a chance TV will be ok... as for the boards doing damage, it depends on how and where he hit, i didn't pay as close attention to that as to the knee on the hack....

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sabresEH
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:56 pm 
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It looks to me like both are falling and are trying to brace for the boards. TV being in front gets the added pressure of Boychuk. Did he push Vanek into the boards on purpose. I don't think so. I'd like to think players are at least that respectful of each other. Both are in vulnerable positions and are headed full speed into the boards, if your thinking of pushing the other player instead of bracing yourself for the crash then yes he is a douche and should be suspended and stoned to death(added for dramatic effect) but I highly doubt that is the case.

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gr8daygo
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:56 pm 
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obviously not a hack and no slamming into the boards, but look at the knee... it gets pretty tweaked... and he ended up being ok... hopefully TV can make it back soon!

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sabretoothpick
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:58 pm 
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I don't want to be a pessimist, but Vanek looked worse coming to the bench than Crosby.

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daz28
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:59 pm 
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For fear of retribution, I will say nothing about Cindy's reaction.


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gr8daygo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:01 am 
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sabresEH wrote:
gr8daygo wrote:
Just giving me 2 cents on what i saw... I have never played.... although I have a pretty extensive orthopedic background.... If you watch the play in slow motion... you can easily see where the hack occurs... you can plainly see TV's right knee buckle, in (pushed medially).... at the point of the hack... I don't care what equipment he has on, the knee is NOT supposed to go left to right and it doesn't take much force to blow a knee out when its slightly bent and a side force is applied.... exactly the hit TV took... the least damage would be a sprain of the MCL or LCL and obviously the worst could be multiple ligament issues....

I'm no medical expert or anything close to knowing what I'm talking abut in that regards but I think when he would get slashed his entire leg would move to soften the blow. Also it's not necessarily his knee moving but more his knee pad.


Foot was planted in the ice, leg is pretty rigid, knee is the weak point, especially when slightly bent, its when the ACL is at it weakest... you can also see the knee buckle and TV give up on the play and start to go down... that shot certainly hurt something...


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gr8daygo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:03 am 
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daz28 wrote:
For fear of retribution, I will say nothing about Cindy's reaction.


hey im not saying im a cindy lover, im just saying it was a pretty decent tweak of the knee and he was ok...

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sabresEH
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:06 am 
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gr8daygo wrote:
sabresEH wrote:
gr8daygo wrote:
Just giving me 2 cents on what i saw... I have never played.... although I have a pretty extensive orthopedic background.... If you watch the play in slow motion... you can easily see where the hack occurs... you can plainly see TV's right knee buckle, in (pushed medially).... at the point of the hack... I don't care what equipment he has on, the knee is NOT supposed to go left to right and it doesn't take much force to blow a knee out when its slightly bent and a side force is applied.... exactly the hit TV took... the least damage would be a sprain of the MCL or LCL and obviously the worst could be multiple ligament issues....

I'm no medical expert or anything close to knowing what I'm talking abut in that regards but I think when he would get slashed his entire leg would move to soften the blow. Also it's not necessarily his knee moving but more his knee pad.


Foot was planted in the ice, leg is pretty rigid, knee is the weak point, especially when slightly bent, its when the ACL is at it weakest... you can also see the knee buckle and TV give up on the play and start to go down... that shot certainly hurt something...


Oh yeah no doubt that slash was stinger.

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daz28
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:11 am 
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gr8daygo wrote:
daz28 wrote:
For fear of retribution, I will say nothing about Cindy's reaction.


hey im not saying im a cindy lover, im just saying it was a pretty decent tweak of the knee and he was ok...

It was a good tweak, but it wasn't the end of the world. The foot was never actually trapped to the ice. I was just biting my tongue on an easy Sid bashing.

Anyways, it looked like it was the left knee that was hurt anyways(Vanek). From the video, it appears the source is incorrect. He used his right knee to get up after the fall, and his right skate to apply pressure to get up at the gate. He was favoring his left leg(aka, the collision leg, not the hack knee).


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:16 am 
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When Boychuck fell on top of Vanek it looked like his foot twisted when he landed.

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Godzilla1960
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:15 am 
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If Vanek hadn't been injured by the play I don't think we would even be commenting on it.

Duh, right?

Well, then the question becomes, did Boychuk set out to intentionally hurt Vanek? I don't think he did.

I don't like it what happened, but the play does not seem outside the bounds of normal playoff hockey. It is something we see all the time. Sometimes it results in a penalty, sometimes not. Unfortunately, our best goal scorer was injured on the play.

We are Sabres fans, so naturally we are pissed, but Boychuck's play would not result in a suspension if reviewed by the league, on my opinion.

Also, I do not think we are a one-man team (Ryan Miller excepted). If Vanek is out for the series I fully expect other players to step up and fill the void. The Caps lost Ovie several times this year and the team didn't miss a beat. If the Sabres just give up and assume they can't win without Vanek (something I doubt will happen), then they never had what it takes to win this series anyway.

I have been nervous about this series with Boston from the minute I knew they were our opponent. Maybe the loss of Vanek will create the sense of desperation the Sabres need to realize these guys can end our season.

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lamaisonbleu
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:56 am 
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I would like to see the entire bruins team concussed. Hockey is more intense than extreme fighting, using sticks and sharp objects. It's not surprising that teams try to eliminate the opposition's star players, with the exception of the Lady Bing Sabres. Now that Vanek's gone they'll be working on Miller. It's rumored they are reviewing the Gomez tapes.


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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:39 am 
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sabresEH wrote:
slesh wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
slesh wrote:
EVERYONE POSTING ON VANEKS RIGHT OR LEFT LEG, IT WAS JUST ANNOUNCED FOLLOWING THE CAPS/MON GAME THAT IT IS INDEED, HIS RIGHT LEG, TO BE MORE SPECIFIC, THEY STATED IT WAS HIS RIGHT KNEE, WHEN THEY ATTEMPTED TO ASK THE ORGANIZATION ABOUT IT.

That sounds straight up retarded. Then again, this is NBC.

Actually, it was VS announcers. They stated they attempted to contact the organization, all they said was it was his right leg, not his left leg. And the announcer then stated it was most likely his knee where the chop occured.

My point on screaming it (CAPS) was to emphasize to those that say shit like "do you play hockey, these injuries happen all the time and it wasn't an intent to injure" that this statement is pure bullshit, considering this particular announcer ACTUALLY PLAYED THE GAME AT THE NHL LEVEL!!!

Don't worry Phil, I'll get it out of my system the moment a Bruins player is on the ice with an injury deserving of retribution.

If you've played hockey at any competitive level and taken hacks all over the body you would understand. Obviously your just a fan on the couch who calls for suspensions on meaningless plays. TAKE OFF THE HOMER GLASSES.

Also did u say the announcer was just guessing as to what the injury was since the only confirmation he got was right leg and nothing more.


That's not what happens in hockey. NOT AT ALL. I hate when people say it's hockey, BUT TWO HANDING SOMEONE IN THE KNEE IS NOT. No attempt for a trip or a stick check. Just a whack in the knee. It's intentional. Look at it, and he looks at Vanek's knee. It's a dirty play and he injured Vanek.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:43 am 
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sabresEH wrote:
I'd like to think players are at least that respectful of each other. .


You know very well this sentence is BULL SHIT. Boston tries to injure our players. Chara on Kaleta, and Boychuck on Vanek. TWO HANDING SOMEONE IN THE KNEE IS NOT FAIR.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:52 am 
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Oh, one little ad on. Vinny Leacavlier speared Kennedy and got kicked out of the game. A little tap to the no no's. And he got kicked out of the game. Boychuck WHACKS Vanek in the leg with all his might, and just a penalty. A minor penalty for assault.

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:56 am 
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Godzilla1960 wrote:


Also, I do not think we are a one-man team (Ryan Miller excepted). If Vanek is out for the series I fully expect other players to step up and fill the void. The Caps lost Ovie several times this year and the team didn't miss a beat. If the Sabres just give up and assume they can't win without Vanek (something I doubt will happen), then they never had what it takes to win this series anyway.

I have been nervous about this series with Boston from the minute I knew they were our opponent. Maybe the loss of Vanek will create the sense of desperation the Sabres need to realize these guys can end our season.


Totally agreed.

This really sucks. TV is out for some undetermined length of time, and all of a sudden it feels like the momentum has shifted pretty massively in bostons favor. But this is what the entire year has been about, we STILL, without Vanek, contain the tools necessary to beat this team, it's all in their heads at this point, if they can rebound from this and play how we KNOW they can they will beat boston. If not, as Zilla pointed out, they dont have what it takes, and dont deserve it.


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gr8daygo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:18 am 
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Godzilla1960 wrote:
If Vanek hadn't been injured by the play I don't think we would even be commenting on it.

Duh, right?

Well, then the question becomes, did Boychuk set out to intentionally hurt Vanek? I don't think he did.

I don't like it what happened, but the play does not seem outside the bounds of normal playoff hockey. It is something we see all the time. Sometimes it results in a penalty, sometimes not. Unfortunately, our best goal scorer was injured on the play.

We are Sabres fans, so naturally we are pissed, but Boychuck's play would not result in a suspension if reviewed by the league, on my opinion.

Also, I do not think we are a one-man team (Ryan Miller excepted). If Vanek is out for the series I fully expect other players to step up and fill the void. The Caps lost Ovie several times this year and the team didn't miss a beat. If the Sabres just give up and assume they can't win without Vanek (something I doubt will happen), then they never had what it takes to win this series anyway.

I have been nervous about this series with Boston from the minute I knew they were our opponent. Maybe the loss of Vanek will create the sense of desperation the Sabres need to realize these guys can end our season.


my only issue with the play is the hack to the knee... if you want to trip him, hook him, hack at the thigh, ok fine... take the penalty and live to play another face-off... BUT I really HATED to see a hack at his knee... now its a fast game and maybe he just went for the hack... but man to catch him in the knee like that.... and yeah maybe that didn't hurt him, but its that shot that sent him down... with that said, I agree, there are players that NEED and MUST step up!!! AND we really need ZE German back... but who do we add in? Is Stafford ready to play? And will he stop plaiing like a girl? Do we call Mancari up? Push Raffi up a line or two....

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:23 am 
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Oh, and Boychuck could have easily poked that puck away or trip Vanek. IT WAS INTENT TO INJURE, YOU DON'T WIND UP AND SLASH SOMEONE ON THE KNEE AS HARD AS YOU CAN ON ACCIDENT! I've played hockey before, that has happened to me, and he was tossed out of the league. It wasn't on my knee, it was on my side. He wound up, two handed the stick, and whack. NHL, take note. Because if it was in a regular season game, YOUR OUT OF HERE.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:49 am 
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sabresEH wrote:
daz28 wrote:
Easy kids, we don't even know if the hack caused the injury ffs.

...and yes, saying "if you ever played hockey, you'd know" is a smug comment.

Well fuck have anyone of you played? None of you have answered that. I've played for 15 years some at recreational levels and some at competitive levels. I've been hacked all over, I've been hit from behind hell I've foughten Indians a good 6 inches taller. I've played this game, I love this game and I am fucking proud to love a team as much as I love the sabres. But I'll take off my homer glasses and call this as I see it. It's nothing more than a hack. NO INTENT TO INJURE.


Obviously the leagues you play with are retards. Hacking someone in the knee and slamming them into the boards is not hockey. Hockey is not what this is. IT'S NOT. THAT'S NOT THE HOCKEY THAT I KNOW. It's a fucking ass bang trying to injure people.

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