:: View topic - It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along

The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively.

I, for one, have never been concerned with an absence of talent - You make the NHL, you gotta be pretty special.

However, I have always been critical of how those with talent apply themselves - I have always railed against a player who believes that his talent alone will suffice.

We have all seen episodes of gross negligence and arrogance unfold before us.

My gripe is that of watching talented players cheat themselves, their team-mates and the fans out of a full 60 minutes of Hockey, thinking that they could flip a switch when necessary - Then discovering, far too late, that they had been "figured out" and were being systematically smothered.

That lack of spark (and in spades) for a couple of seasons, is what I have been decrying. The lapses. The shrugs, in the post-game interviews. The lack of passion. The lack of shame or discomfort. The verbal diarrhea, regarding "moving their feet". The absence of accountability.

The "talented" have relied (far too often) solely on their talent - And far too infrequently on discipline and urgency.

slesh wrote:

The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively.

A win is a win is a win.

The schedule is not sorted by 'offensive wins' and 'defensive wins'. It tracks only one thing: a win.

Sometimes you win handily. Sometimes you win ugly. Sometimes you do enough offensively that you could have Ryan Seacrest playing goal instead of Ryan Miller. Sometimes your goaltender has to stand on his head and steal one for you.

At the end of the year, they all count.

People are squawking about 'consistency'. Frankly, I think that those folks want to see the Washington game every night. Guess what? That's unrealistic. There are going to be some nights that it's just not there. It's a long season. The key is how they respond AFTER those losses.

Back to back wins against the #1 team in the east and #3 team in the west? I'll take it.

(Oh yeah, the team is #1 in the NHL in goals against. That formula worked REALLY well for the Devils in the 90s...)

Squanto wrote:

slesh wrote:

The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively.

I understand your feelings on the consistency issue. And its not squawking from where myself and many others stand, its justified opinions to us considering the recent history of the team itself.

As for the 90's defensive play, just to let you know, from the 93-94 to the 03-04 season (also known as the "between the lockouts era") defensive play smothered the games entertainment value to the fans. This is proven from revenue stream data from that time frame. In response to this the NHL implemented the policies they did in an effort to increase scoring thereby increasing fan interest and generating more revenue.
This is still a business at the end of the day. What is interesting is the data of scoring, it didn't decrease in an overall season data set, but game by game it did. With all of that in mind, I would like to see the final couple of pieces put into place to increase the chance of successfully winning a Stanley Cup. Come on now Squanto, you can't fault me for being a greedy fan and wanting to win it all

I respectfully disagree. I do not believe this particular group of players has the fortitude to finish up with a championship. Oh, I wish they would prove me and alot of fans wrong, but, the inconsistent play speaks a whole hell of alot louder than a couple of victories like these last 2.

The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively. They are showing more grit and the team overall has improved. They are not ready to make a run at the cup in my opinion. And that is the tragedy in all of this, Ryan Miller is ready.

I think I said these next 5 games would be a tell tail sign. They went 3-2. Which is about what I expected from this squad, just above 500 in a 5 game homestand. Not bad, but not great either. Nope, it is still my belief they are 1 or 2 pieces shy of the complete puzzle.

slesh wrote:

Squanto wrote:

slesh wrote:

The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively.

Hold up Slesh.

That defensive play is a lot different from the defensive play we're using.

The Devils straight up slowed the game down and played the trap.

The Sabres play defense by playing offense and keeping the puck on their sticks.

There's a big difference. I am never bored when I watch the Sabres.

PuckSniperPensel wrote:

slesh wrote:

Squanto wrote:

slesh wrote:

The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively.

Well PSP, I also agree with you. I am not implying the game has become "boring" by any stretch. I am merely pointing out you cannot use the "defensive era" sceniario's while trying to imply it can be done by this Sabres team. Simply put, it hasn't been the Sabres defensive play alone that has given them this current record. I think (I hope) we can all agree Ryan Miller has been the overall underlying factor to this record.

I am merely pointing out you cannot use the "defensive era" sceniario's while trying to imply it can be done by this Sabres team.

slesh wrote:

I am merely pointing out you cannot use the "defensive era" sceniario's while trying to imply it can be done by this Sabres team.

Why the hell not?

The Devils played very good defense, had a very good goalie, and they won games because of it.

The Sabres play very good defense, have a very good goalie, and are winning games because of it.

I fail to understand how decreased leaguewide revenues because of the trap era have a damn thing to do with the strategy of the game on the ice.

I will pass judgement on the fashion in which we finish the season. While I am pleased with the way we have played for the most part so far, it will be that much more critical later on.

We were giddy with the regular season three seasons ago, but were unimpressive in the post season. Perhaps some considered that a good season; I didn't because I felt we underacheived.

Jay is quite correct in that while it has largely been Miller, he is a part of this team, and will remain as such.

I believe we still need our top six to start producing more consistently. It will be hard to keep winning if they toil among the scoring pace of other contenders third lines.

Author:	Vanek_Fanatic_26 [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:53 am ]
Post subject:	It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
Yep. I said it. For years, Darcy Regier has been saying that he truly believed that the team he was putting together was the team that would give us the best chance to win. He locked up his corp. players: Vanek, Roy, Hecht(way overpaid, but much better this year), Gaustad, Pominville, and Miller. He's drafted decent prospects with a lot of upside: Gerbe, Ennis, Kennedy, and who can forget Myers. He finally added the grit with Montador and Grier, and we already had Kaleta, Rivet, and Ellis. Also, how many of us were calling for Ruff's departure last season? I know that a lot of us wanted to see Lindy get a change of scenery. I am positive that we all knew he wasn't a bad coach. It's Ruff's ability to adapt to his surroundings and turn what looks like mediocrity to something pretty darn good. His best move this season was putting Tallinder with Myers, practically revitalizing the defensman's career. Another thing that many people may not agree with is Ruff's ability to juggle lines and generate a spark. I know many of us love that chemistry, but when something's not working for a while, I like that Ruff isn't afraid to make a drastic change, like putting Vanek on a line with Grier. This not only increased Vanek's opportunities: it seems to be helping Tim Kennedy become a better playmaker. I read that a lot of people were using this week as a benchmark to see if this team was a contender or if this was just a middle of the pack team. We shut down the Caps, and particular their power players of Semin, Backstrom, and Ovechkin with our shutdown pairing of Myers and Tallinder. Let's not forget how well Nathan Gerbe's first game of the season went. The guy stole a puck from an unsuspecting Ovechkin. And finally, we see that every once in a while, this team can play a decent game in front of Patty Lalime, and shockingly, Lalime can play an excellent game when his team doesn't flop in front of him. I've been calling all season for Ruff to play Lalime first in the many back-to-back games we have. That way, our team plays better in front of Lalime the first night, making Lalime look better. We put the better, rested, goalie in when the team is tired. I would say that is a much smarter decision, but that is just my opinion. My point is that I feel like we've finally got a division contender on our hands. All the signs are pointing that way. This was an underdog team, possibly one of those sleeper picks you make at the start of the year.

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
I've been saying that for a while now too, Fanatic, but don't post that here. People won't be buying it until we win a cup. That said, our top 6 need to keep improving. I thought the game last night was a big step forward for them. Connolly, Roy, Stafford, MacArthur, Gerbe, Hecht, Pominville... they all shot the puck when they were supposed to. There was a lot less fancy shit last night, and that's how they need to play to win games. If they keep improving as the season goes on, I'll agree. We may have a contender on our hands.

Author:	slesh [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
I respectfully disagree. I do not believe this particular group of players has the fortitude to finish up with a championship. Oh, I wish they would prove me and alot of fans wrong, but, the inconsistent play speaks a whole hell of alot louder than a couple of victories like these last 2. The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively. They are showing more grit and the team overall has improved. They are not ready to make a run at the cup in my opinion. And that is the tragedy in all of this, Ryan Miller is ready. I think I said these next 5 games would be a tell tail sign. They went 3-2. Which is about what I expected from this squad, just above 500 in a 5 game homestand. Not bad, but not great either. Nope, it is still my belief they are 1 or 2 pieces shy of the complete puzzle.

Author:	Squanto [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
slesh wrote: The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively. A win is a win is a win. The schedule is not sorted by 'offensive wins' and 'defensive wins'. It tracks only one thing: a win. Sometimes you win handily. Sometimes you win ugly. Sometimes you do enough offensively that you could have Ryan Seacrest playing goal instead of Ryan Miller. Sometimes your goaltender has to stand on his head and steal one for you. At the end of the year, they all count. People are squawking about 'consistency'. Frankly, I think that those folks want to see the Washington game every night. Guess what? That's unrealistic. There are going to be some nights that it's just not there. It's a long season. The key is how they respond AFTER those losses. Back to back wins against the #1 team in the east and #3 team in the west? I'll take it. (Oh yeah, the team is #1 in the NHL in goals against. That formula worked REALLY well for the Devils in the 90s...)

Author:	mechaphil [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
Pierre Lebrun said this week is an important test for the Sabres. A pair of clunkers preceded this stretch of games, and the Sabres have responded in spades so far. 1 GAA over the past two games against offensive powerhouses, one of those games being played by Lala. A win tonight will be like those wins against Calgary and Philly to me - another significant stepping stone in their progression.

http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/

It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1311	Page 1 of 3

Author:	icehound [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
I, for one, have never been concerned with an absence of talent - You make the NHL, you gotta be pretty special. However, I have always been critical of how those with talent apply themselves - I have always railed against a player who believes that his talent alone will suffice. We have all seen episodes of gross negligence and arrogance unfold before us. My gripe is that of watching talented players cheat themselves, their team-mates and the fans out of a full 60 minutes of Hockey, thinking that they could flip a switch when necessary - Then discovering, far too late, that they had been "figured out" and were being systematically smothered. That lack of spark (and in spades) for a couple of seasons, is what I have been decrying. The lapses. The shrugs, in the post-game interviews. The lack of passion. The lack of shame or discomfort. The verbal diarrhea, regarding "moving their feet". The absence of accountability. The "talented" have relied (far too often) solely on their talent - And far too infrequently on discipline and urgency.

Author:	slesh [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
Squanto wrote: slesh wrote: The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively. A win is a win is a win. The schedule is not sorted by 'offensive wins' and 'defensive wins'. It tracks only one thing: a win. Sometimes you win handily. Sometimes you win ugly. Sometimes you do enough offensively that you could have Ryan Seacrest playing goal instead of Ryan Miller. Sometimes your goaltender has to stand on his head and steal one for you. At the end of the year, they all count. People are squawking about 'consistency'. Frankly, I think that those folks want to see the Washington game every night. Guess what? That's unrealistic. There are going to be some nights that it's just not there. It's a long season. The key is how they respond AFTER those losses. Back to back wins against the #1 team in the east and #3 team in the west? I'll take it. (Oh yeah, the team is #1 in the NHL in goals against. That formula worked REALLY well for the Devils in the 90s...) I understand your feelings on the consistency issue. And its not squawking from where myself and many others stand, its justified opinions to us considering the recent history of the team itself. As for the 90's defensive play, just to let you know, from the 93-94 to the 03-04 season (also known as the "between the lockouts era") defensive play smothered the games entertainment value to the fans. This is proven from revenue stream data from that time frame. In response to this the NHL implemented the policies they did in an effort to increase scoring thereby increasing fan interest and generating more revenue. This is still a business at the end of the day. What is interesting is the data of scoring, it didn't decrease in an overall season data set, but game by game it did. With all of that in mind, I would like to see the final couple of pieces put into place to increase the chance of successfully winning a Stanley Cup. Come on now Squanto, you can't fault me for being a greedy fan and wanting to win it all .

Author:	jvaccaro6 [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
Here's the thing, we were asking for leadership out of guys who simply weren't capable of giving it the past two years. Lets take a look at the moves Darcy made; and why they were made. 07-08, we lost Briere and Drury, and had no clear defined captain, and therefore nobody was responsible for the team as an entirety. We hoped that Roy would develop into Briere, and Stafford would take the role of Drury, with Tim Connolly also stepping up. Injuries, and inconsistencies in their games, and we failed. Brian Campbell also departed, as a cap casualty, which resulted in the draft pick that got us Tyler Ennis, and brought back a much needed power forward in Steve Bernier, who was then coupled into a trade that aquired us a 2nd round pick from Vancoover, that was paired with our second rounder that year, to get Craig Rivet that off season. We also drafted Myers, and Luke Adam who are making tons of noise in the hockey world. 08-09, a season where we were riddled by injuries, Vanek missed 9, MacArthur missed 11, Gaustad missed 20, Connolly missed 34, Rivet Missed 18, and Miller missed roughly 15. When you better players are missing over 100 games combined, you're going to struggle. We finished 2 points out of the playoffs, and we were in a 4th place when Miller was injured. That off season we went out and got tough gritty players. Montador, and Grier. Not to mention added tough guys to our minor league club to "protect" our future assets in the way of Cowan and McCormick (who I still feel is a better player than Ellis). All the while, Regier stuck by his "core" Roy, Connolly, Vanek, Pomminville, Hecht, Stafford, MacArthur, Gaustad, Hank, Lydman, and a budding Sekera. All in all, I feel the moves he's made under the new salary cap have been exactly what this team needs to not only be successful short term, but long term as well. Our younger players are developing well, Kennedy, Gerbe, Ennis, Myers, Butler, Kassian, Foligno, Adam, Enroth, and several others are getting the the point where they may become impact players in the NHL very soon. Sounds like a lot of fire power, and some grit added in there; future is looking up. I feel like we are moving in the right direction to build a dynasty, not only a good team for a few years, but a legit 10-15 year dynasty.

Author:	MakinItLookMean [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
slesh wrote: I respectfully disagree. I do not believe this particular group of players has the fortitude to finish up with a championship. Oh, I wish they would prove me and alot of fans wrong, but, the inconsistent play speaks a whole hell of alot louder than a couple of victories like these last 2. The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively. They are showing more grit and the team overall has improved. They are not ready to make a run at the cup in my opinion. And that is the tragedy in all of this, Ryan Miller is ready. I think I said these next 5 games would be a tell tail sign. They went 3-2. Which is about what I expected from this squad, just above 500 in a 5 game homestand. Not bad, but not great either. Nope, it is still my belief they are 1 or 2 pieces shy of the complete puzzle. i agree with slesh here....though i think it might be more like 3/4 players away not 1 or 2

Author:	slesh [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
PuckSniperPensel wrote: slesh wrote: Squanto wrote: slesh wrote: The one thing that keeps gnawing at me is the overall team record. They have found a way to win, defensively. A win is a win is a win. The schedule is not sorted by 'offensive wins' and 'defensive wins'. It tracks only one thing: a win. Sometimes you win handily. Sometimes you win ugly. Sometimes you do enough offensively that you could have Ryan Seacrest playing goal instead of Ryan Miller. Sometimes your goaltender has to stand on his head and steal one for you. At the end of the year, they all count. People are squawking about 'consistency'. Frankly, I think that those folks want to see the Washington game every night. Guess what? That's unrealistic. There are going to be some nights that it's just not there. It's a long season. The key is how they respond AFTER those losses. Back to back wins against the #1 team in the east and #3 team in the west? I'll take it. (Oh yeah, the team is #1 in the NHL in goals against. That formula worked REALLY well for the Devils in the 90s...) I understand your feelings on the consistency issue. And its not squawking from where myself and many others stand, its justified opinions to us considering the recent history of the team itself. As for the 90's defensive play, just to let you know, from the 93-94 to the 03-04 season (also known as the "between the lockouts era") defensive play smothered the games entertainment value to the fans. This is proven from revenue stream data from that time frame. In response to this the NHL implemented the policies they did in an effort to increase scoring thereby increasing fan interest and generating more revenue. This is still a business at the end of the day. What is interesting is the data of scoring, it didn't decrease in an overall season data set, but game by game it did. With all of that in mind, I would like to see the final couple of pieces put into place to increase the chance of successfully winning a Stanley Cup. Come on now Squanto, you can't fault me for being a greedy fan and wanting to win it all . Hold up Slesh. That defensive play is a lot different from the defensive play we're using. The Devils straight up slowed the game down and played the trap. The Sabres play defense by playing offense and keeping the puck on their sticks. There's a big difference. I am never bored when I watch the Sabres. Well PSP, I also agree with you. I am not implying the game has become "boring" by any stretch. I am merely pointing out you cannot use the "defensive era" sceniario's while trying to imply it can be done by this Sabres team. Simply put, it hasn't been the Sabres defensive play alone that has given them this current record. I think (I hope) we can all agree Ryan Miller has been the overall underlying factor to this record.

Author:	jvaccaro6 [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
Here's the way I see it, I'm getting kinda fed up with whole Buffalo Sabres and Ryan Miller type attitude. Last I checked Ryan Miller was a member of this team, and the fact is, we have him. Would we be worse off without him? Absolutely, but considering he's the best goalie in the league right now, 29 other teams would be far worse off without him too. You play to your strengths, that's like saying SJ wouldn't be as good without Thornton, Heatley, and Marleau, obviously they would, but they play to their strengths, and win games on those guys shoulders. I don't see anyone calling out the Caps because they'd be down right awful without Greene, Ovie, Semin, and Backstrum. Same with Pittsburgh without Kunitz, Crosby, Malkin, and Orpick You play to your strengths, and you win the game on the shoulders of your stars. That's why they are stars.

Author:	Squanto [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
slesh wrote: I am merely pointing out you cannot use the "defensive era" sceniario's while trying to imply it can be done by this Sabres team. Why the hell not? The Devils played very good defense, had a very good goalie, and they won games because of it. The Sabres play very good defense, have a very good goalie, and are winning games because of it. I fail to understand how decreased leaguewide revenues because of the trap era have a damn thing to do with the strategy of the game on the ice.

Author:	BlueandYellow [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
It came together nicely, but if he could get rid of a bit more dead weight and add a good sniper and or finisher, we will be a FOR SURE cup contender. If Lalime continues to play like last night of course.

Author:	Howie Hodge [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
I will pass judgement on the fashion in which we finish the season. While I am pleased with the way we have played for the most part so far, it will be that much more critical later on. We were giddy with the regular season three seasons ago, but were unimpressive in the post season. Perhaps some considered that a good season; I didn't because I felt we underacheived. Jay is quite correct in that while it has largely been Miller, he is a part of this team, and will remain as such. I believe we still need our top six to start producing more consistently. It will be hard to keep winning if they toil among the scoring pace of other contenders third lines.

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Author:	slesh [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
Squanto wrote: slesh wrote: I am merely pointing out you cannot use the "defensive era" sceniario's while trying to imply it can be done by this Sabres team. Why the hell not? The Devils played very good defense, had a very good goalie, and they won games because of it. The Sabres play very good defense, have a very good goalie, and are winning games because of it. I fail to understand how decreased leaguewide revenues because of the trap era have a damn thing to do with the strategy of the game on the ice. Well Squanto, this team has a vastly improved defense, it has a prime time goaltender, my opinion is not to be a nay sayer as some would call me, it is to point out that I, like many other fans would like to see the consistency on the scoring side of the team increase or, management needs to put forth and implement a plan of action to bring in that consistency. These are merely opinions, some differ from others. but when it comes to the end of the season and all has been played out, people may say "eat your opinions slesh" while the team wins the cup, in which case I would smile a huge smile while I take my medicine from others. On the other hand, I could be proven correct in my thoughts and the team could very well be missing a component or 2 to complete the quest.

Author:	Squanto [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's time to admit it: Darcy was right all along
I just want them to win games. I don't care if they have to win games 6-5, 2-1, wearing pink skirts and handbags, or Tickle me Elmo helmets. Just win. Win pretty, win ugly, I could care. Just win. Get into the playoffs, and see what happens. I'm not going to sweat over perceived holes in the team until near the trading deadline when you can actually do something about it. Until then, just win.