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MacArthur and Butler
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Author:  End The Curse [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  MacArthur and Butler
Now, let me preface this by saying that I am not one of those types who dwell on +/- stats. In most cases they are very deceiving and don't reflect the true value of the player as much as the team around him and circumstances.

However, Mac is fucking -12 and Butler is -11. The next closest minus on the team is a four way tie at -2. The Sabres as a whole are a PLUS 51 outside of the Butler/Mac -23 bloodletting.

These numbers are simply impossible to ignore, and I think at this point something really needs to be done. MacArthur repeatedly takes himself out of the play by over-committing himself in the offensive zone. Good forechecking is nice, but when you ignore the defensive responsibilities you become a liability.

Butler simply does not use his size and strength with any authority, and ends up getting taken off the puck and losing the battles in the corner. He also seems to get caught way too often poorly timing his pinch at the blue line, and struggles with the outlet passes in his own zone under duress.

In my opinion, it's time for both to be put on the bench. I think Ellis should replace MacArthur and Sekera should replace Butler in the lineup, and not just for one night.
Author:  NYIntensity [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
Bench? I'd trade 'em for a nasty forward ;)
Author:  CriminallyVu1gar [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
NYIntensity wrote:
Bench? I'd trade 'em for a nasty forward ;)


I don't know that you really want Paetsch/Weber/Sekara coming in to fill that defensive hole.
Author:  End The Curse [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
Sekera is even plus/minus. Paetsch is a Plus 1. Weber is a Plus 17 down in Portland. I'd take my chances on any of these three.
Author:  NYIntensity [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
NYIntensity wrote:
Bench? I'd trade 'em for a nasty forward ;)


I don't know that you really want Paetsch/Weber/Sekara coming in to fill that defensive hole.

Butler's almost the same liability as Rivet.. They've got ups and downs, but IMO, are both expendable. The past two games were the first time I can recall Montador dicking the dog.

Do I believe that Butler has potential? Hell yes. The problem though, is that we've got a legit team here, and don't have the time to wait for his potential to shine through. He might take 6 years to fulfill that, and in 6 years, we're not going to have this lineup.
Author:  End The Curse [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
No, don't trade Butler...he just needs some bench time to get his head and attitude back on straight. I seriously do not see any trades coming, but if there were it would be Mac before Butler.
Author:  CriminallyVu1gar [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
If only MacArthur could bring his hustle and A-game every night. He's the biggest points for cash bargain we have.
Author:  daz28 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
If only MacArthur could bring his hustle and A-game every night. He's the biggest points for cash bargain we have.

Ya, I wouldn't bench Mac(a top 6) for Ellis(career 4th liner). As for Butler, I'm more worried about Lydman-Montador than I am Butler-Rivet. Butler is young, and young defensemen are supposed to make mistakes, therefore he has an excuse. The other 2 do not. Also, Rivet was far from our problem on the road trip. I liked him jumping up in the play. He must have been watching Needs in Anaheim.
Author:  Timbo Slice [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
I'd trade both of them.
Author:  Howie Hodge [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
The problem on the road trip was the play of Tallinder and Montador. Both may have played over their heads up to this point in the season. As one has been bad for the past two seasons, and the other is a journeyman player, to expect both to play at the level they were, is perhaps being overly optimistic.

If they were just worn down from a prolonged road trip, they should rebound. If it wasn't that, then we will be needing some help on the backline, be it call ups, trades, or both.

I would rather see Paetsch in the lineup than Shakira at his point.

Oh, and yes; Butler and MacArthur were poor (save Macs game vs LA) on this road trip as well.
Author:  sabresindc [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
I am very disappointed with both of them but I've had mixed emotions about Mac for a few seasons, he is always hot or cold. I would love to get rid of Mac but honestly, I don't think we'd get much for him this season. Butler does have potential and he does need a serious wake up call and hopefully he'll respond.
Author:  MakinItLookMean [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
would much rather see sekera in the line up rather than butler...move offense from him.....

and too think per-season people were talking about butler as the main man on the point on the pp...lol
Author:  YankeeInRaleigh [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
I never understood how one part of a defensive pair can have such a drastically different +/- than their defensive partner. They're usually out on the ice at the same time, how does this happen? I feel like rivet should be -12 at this point.
Author:  sabresEH [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
Would Mac + Bostons 3rd get us Rene Bourque
Author:  mechaphil [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
sabresEH wrote:
Would Mac + Bostons 3rd get us Rene Bourque

You have my undivided attention, due to your mentioning of Rene Bourque. He would immediately improve the Sabres second line scoring and second PP unit.
Author:  Sabresfansince1980 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
I never liked MacArthur for his lack of defense, and I was on Butler from the start of the season for his poor placement as a point man on the PP. As the season continued Butler consistently lost battles in the d-zone, and has shown almost no offensive awareness 5-on-5. I'm sure he has potential to improve, but he has been shifted from top pair to 3rd pair for a reason, and it's not because of Rivet. Rivet's plus/minus was down close to Butler's until Butler went on IR for a little while. Magically, Rivet's rating shot up to a +1 or so. When Butler returned and they got paired up again, Rivet's rating shot right back down. Rivet is stuck covering for Butler, not the other way around.
Author:  Ehle_Aficionado [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
I say trade both of them for Horton.
Author:  BS1970 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
End The Curse wrote:
No, don't trade Butler...he just needs some bench time to get his head and attitude back on straight. I seriously do not see any trades coming, but if there were it would be Mac before Butler.

That's right, don't trade Butler. I'd say just send him down to Portland to get his confidence back. Mac on the other hand, get his ass out of Buffalo for someone who's worth a spot.
Author:  BS1970 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
Ehle_Aficionado wrote:
I say trade both of them for Horton.

I'd say trade Mac and Roy for Horton.
Author:  Timbo Slice [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MacArthur and Butler
sabresEH wrote:
Would Mac + Bostons 3rd get us Rene Bourque


Please, please, please, please.....
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