This type of logic based thinking will get you nowhere.
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| Two FA attempts that didn't work out http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3875 |
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| Author: | Sabresfansince1980 [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
I suppose most of you have heard or read this statement from Darcy already. For those that haven't, it's from a WGR interview a couple days ago... Regier said that attempts were made to bring in some free agents that failed, not because the Sabres didn't have the right offer but because players chose different teams. "It's very frustrating. I can tell you, in two cases, that we were either at the number that the player accepted or above the number. In one case, the player stayed where he had been. In another case, he went home. The player went back to where he had been." The best bets are that Regier offered Matt Cullen more than what he accepted to sign with Minnesota (he's from there), and at least matched what Koivu accepted to stay in Anaheim. It's yet another example of how Darcy is working to improve the team, but that signing FAs is a two way street. He can't make them want to play in Buffalo, shy of offering a few million above market value and hamstringing the roster. |
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| Author: | Wozniak [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
i had not seen this (for obvious reasons). i think that people here are aware that it is a 2 way street. the thing is though, since stuff like this rarely ever comes out it seems that Darcy is spending day after day playing Hearts on his computer. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
This type of logic based thinking will get you nowhere.
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| Author: | Sabresfansince1980 [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
Wozniak wrote: i had not seen this (for obvious reasons). i think that people here are aware that it is a 2 way street. the thing is though, since stuff like this rarely ever comes out it seems that Darcy is spending day after day playing Hearts on his computer. So it's more logical for you to believe that the GM of an NHL franchise fucks off all day than to believe that there are more examples of this during Regier's tenure? Don't worry it's a rhetorical question. I know people will believe what they want regardless. I happen to know otherwise. |
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| Author: | sabresindc [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
I wonder then what makes some of these players not want to play for the Sabres? |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
Wozniak wrote: i had not seen this (for obvious reasons). i think that people here are aware that it is a 2 way street. the thing is though, since stuff like this rarely ever comes out it seems that Darcy is spending day after day playing Hearts on his computer. I'm by no means one of Darcy's biggest fans, but I have never once thought that he wasn't trying. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
It's good to hear these things at least. |
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| Author: | daz28 [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
sabresindc wrote: I wonder then what makes some of these players not want to play for the Sabres? Right. While I understand, I do not exonerate him. No one but him has the power to make it happen. I even think giving the fans excuses is kind of lame. (Lame analogy coming)If the pizza place only delivers to the town line, then it's up to me to convince him to go the extra mile to my house. From another perspective, those were probably bad guys to target. Koivu was almost certainly going to re-sign with the Ducks, and Cullen would probably prefer to play near home. Everyone knew these 2 things. You guys can pile on now about how everyone hates Regier, but I just don't accept or honor his excuses, even though I understand his hands are tied in more than several ways. If I tried hard enough, I could probably provide(create) excuses for most GM's(except the ones winning cups, because they don't NEED any). ...as I said, feel free to pile on the unpopular opinion. |
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| Author: | X-pensfan [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
daz28 wrote: sabresindc wrote: I wonder then what makes some of these players not want to play for the Sabres? Right. While I understand, I do not exonerate him. No one but him has the power to make it happen. I even think giving the fans excuses is kind of lame. (Lame analogy coming)If the pizza place only delivers to the town line, then it's up to me to convince him to go the extra mile to my house. From another perspective, those were probably bad guys to target. Koivu was almost certainly going to re-sign with the Ducks, and Cullen would probably prefer to play near home. Everyone knew these 2 things. You guys can pile on now about how everyone hates Regier, but I just don't accept or honor his excuses, even though I understand his hands are tied in more than several ways. If I tried hard enough, I could probably provide(create) excuses for most GM's(except the ones winning cups, because they don't NEED any). ...as I said, feel free to pile on the unpopular opinion. I kind of agree, but I'm not sure if Regier was looking for a pity party so much as simply discussing the nature of the business. In a position of power like that of an NHL GM, you're either going to say too much or not enough. Some of them likely feel like not saying anything and letting people draw their own conclusions and maybe some others feel like the fans deserve a little more of an explanation. But you're right, the bottom line is winning. If Regier had a Cup on his resume people would be less inclined to read between the lines and just just take him for his word. But he doesn't, and he didn't seal the deal with these players for whatever reason(s). So maybe they need more action and less talk right now? Probably. |
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| Author: | jvaccaro6 [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
I think Darcy should be the NHL Gestapo, if you don't take our offer, we'll come get you in the middle of the night, and put you into our camp! Too soon? |
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| Author: | BlueandYellow [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
FA's want to come here a few years ago, then POOF! What went wrong? |
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| Author: | BlueandYellow [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
Okay. FA's don't come here, we keep Miller, say goodbye to a cup opportunity for maybe a decade. At least that's how I view it. Every team who won a Stanley had good forwards and a hot goalie. Miller is too good to let the team stay out of the playoffs. He isn't good enough to win us a cup, which would require him to be better than Hasek... He is great and amazing but he's not going to win us a cup alone. I'm not trying to be a doom and gloom guy here, but we need a superstar forward, or two good forwards. I won't discount Darcy is doing all he can, but if FA's won't come here, Miller is too good to let us get a good draft pick, and if Darcy doesn't have much to offer in a trade, we can't really go anywhere except for we have been going. There will always be a team better than us unless we get people. Which will not be until Miller retires. We have a hot goalie, and that's it. It's a piece of the puzzle, and the other pieces were swallowed by your cat and you have to wait until he shits them out. Think about it. Chicago-Toews, Kane, and Versteeg. Niemi was hot. Three drafts that are incredible. Pittsburgh- Malkin, Crosby. Two of the best players in the league. With the hot Fluery Aneheim- Gigure was solid, Getzlaf, Perry. They had amazing forwards Carolina- Brindamour, Staal, and Cam Ward was awesome. Tampa Bay- Lecavlier, St Louis, Cory Stillman, Brad Richards... The Bulin wall... Red Wings...-Shanahan, Federov, Hull, Hasek. All had amazing forwards and great D men, and their goalie was hot. We have Myers, who isn't even close to superstar status, and a very hot goalie. What, Vanek is our superstar? He's good, but he's just not the best forward we need. Darcy isn't in a good position here. |
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| Author: | BlueandYellow [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
I know people will be so quick to defend Miller, but if FA's won't come here, trades won't happen, and we can't get a draft pick, all we have is Miller and Myers as the guys to get it done. |
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| Author: | gr8daygo [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
BlueandYellow wrote: I know people will be so quick to defend Miller, but if FA's won't come here, trades won't happen, and we can't get a draft pick, all we have is Miller and Myers as the guys to get it done. i kinda see where you are coming from, but i disagree a little... we do have more than Meyers and MIller... we have a pretty solid supporting cast with some solid young talent coming up... not every team is going to have a super star and do not discount what a healthy experienced Vanek and Timmy C can bring... there just are not enough of them around... and honestly if the play-offs are officiated like the regular season the landscape in the east looks pretty different... Could we use a stronger #1 C... maybe... and a puck moving d... sure... but Im pretty ok with the d... leopold brings a little more O than hank, and weber could turn out to be pretty solid... our 3rd and 4th lines are no joke at this point... Ennis I believe will continue to be a menace... A healthy Vanek, Hect and Timmy C will make a world of difference ... Stafford is the weakest cat in the top six... We are not that far off... a little health and luck into the play-offs and I bet you'd be very surprised at what this team can do! And never discount Ruff, the guy always seems to do more with less... he has his stud G and D... and some pretty damn solid F... Ruff can push this team further than a lot give him credit for... just need a little health and a little luck... |
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| Author: | Sabresfansince1980 [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
How many of those players above, and also from the 07-09 Red Wings, were centerpiece FAs? We also need to remember that for the most part FAs don't come in and win a Cup, they fill holes as support players. Hossa is a good example. Pronger was closer to a main cog in Anaheim, but certainly that team had several main players. Otherwise those teams won with drafted players that panned out to be great players that stayed long-term, with a few pieces picked up along the way. How many other teams during the last decade have looked better on paper than the teams that won? Quite a few actually (Ottawa, New Jersey, Vancouver, San Jose, and actually Detroit a few times), so FAs and what they make a team look like on paper are not the automatic formula for a Cup winner. Buffalo has struggled since 06-07 to have four solid lines as a result of both B&D leaving and a lack of top draft picks stepping up and succeeding. Having young studs like Myers and Ennis play to potential and make an instant impact is something the Sabres have lacked for a while. We can't discount that along with the better depth that Kennedy and Kaleta will provide. I still want to see another d-man added, but the team should be closer to the 05-06 group that everybody remembers so well, and there weren't any big time FAs on that squad. |
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| Author: | Gasoline [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
Why the hell would we want Matt Cullen and Saku Koivu anyway? I'm just fine with our roster the way it is now. |
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| Author: | NYIntensity [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
sabresindc wrote: I wonder then what makes some of these players not want to play for the Sabres? I'm going to assume its either perennial mediocrity or the fact that they'd be stuck with players who seem to be content not trying hard. |
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| Author: | NYIntensity [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
BlueandYellow wrote: I know people will be so quick to defend Miller, but if FA's won't come here, trades won't happen, and we can't get a draft pick, all we have is Miller and Myers as the guys to get it done. I said a few weeks/months ago that I'd let Miller go if we could bring in a no-shit top 5 (in the LEAGUE) forward, a top 15 guy, and a decent goalie. And I think he's worth that. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
daz28 wrote: From another perspective, those were probably bad guys to target. Koivu was almost certainly going to re-sign with the Ducks, and Cullen would probably prefer to play near home. Everyone knew these 2 things. You guys can pile on now about how everyone hates Regier, but I just don't accept or honor his excuses, even though I understand his hands are tied in more than several ways. If I tried hard enough, I could probably provide(create) excuses for most GM's(except the ones winning cups, because they don't NEED any). Jesus christ. Are you kidding me? I'm floored by just how far people will twist what happens to bitch about Regier. It's fascinating. NOBODY KNEW what Koivu and Cullen wanted to do except those players. NOBODY. You're seriously going to fault Regier for TRYING now? What about the other GMs that tried to sign those guys to? Were they morons as well? If Darcy doesn't sign a free agent, he's a bad GM because he didn't get it done. Who cares if he offered a player more money or a longer term than he accepted elsewhere. He sucks!!! If Darcy does sign a free agent, he's a bad GM because it was the wrong player, or he overpaid him.He sucks!!! This is what you guys sound like with these unfounded criticisms. I'm not Darcy's biggest fan, but for fuck's sake can we criticize him based on facts, and not half-baked bullshit? |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two FA attempts that didn't work out |
Gasoline wrote: Why the hell would we want Matt Cullen and Saku Koivu anyway? I'm just fine with our roster the way it is now. Either player would be an upgrade. Even if you consider the roster 'fine', you should always take upgrades if you can get them. |
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