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Yhoshi
 Post subject: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:45 am 
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they don't like each other ....... we all know . (I remember his breakthrough year when he wasn't allowed to play in the playoffs. it's like ruff would have benched tyler myers against boston last season)

why is vanek still in buffalo? 14 min icetime , he is the one who has to play in 3 different lines. (shuffle mode :) )

I have not the feeling that Vanek is allowed to / can play as good as he is able to. :doh:

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Squanto
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:30 am 
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Who said they don't like each other? That's just a guess, there are no facts to back that up.

Vanek's ice time has always been a bit lower than others because he doesn't consistently kill penalties. Sometimes Lindy uses him there, sometimes he doesn't. I suspect the line juggling is an attempt to get Vanek going by putting him with people he's more comfortable with.

Vanek wasn't nearly as good in his rookie season as Myers was in his. That argument is just not correct. There's also no way that Vanek is being told or forced to play at a level lower than he can. That's just an ignorant statement. What NHL coach would hold a player back out of spite? "You didn't listen to me in practice this week. Don't try and score in the next game!" Makes zero sense.


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Sabretooth
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:47 am 
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Being Ruff, I would be ripping Vanek from last night's botch job. Failing to score goals and achieving a -4 plus/minus rating would be grounds for a period on the fourth line or the bench. I would decrease his ice time by a minute so he can maximize his production with the alloted time before increasing it.

The message should be very clear to Stafford, also.

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schooner44
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:21 am 
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Vanek is always the guy who gets the shaft when Ruff starts juggling lines. In the opening game, Vanek was awesome and it was an anomaly that he didn't get at least one goal. Why do you take a pure goal scorer and put him anywhere but your top line? He started the game with Pommers and Connolly and then he was moved to the top line, then finished the game playing with Neidermayer and Gaustad. Roy is the only center on this team that can play at Vanek's level and that's who he needs to play with. All this talk about Stafford having this big breakout year is crap...he looks the same as last year so far. Our top line needs to be Vanek-Roy-Ennis EVERY SINGLE GAME.

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gssmvak
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:54 am 
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I can’t judge the current situation in the locker room, but there are rumors that there is a large group of players that can’t stand Lindy. We all know that Max hated Lindy (Kovy statement last year), but enough former players implied in interviews that Lindy isn't an easy coach to play for.

Vanek is rumored to be in the group that can’t stand Lindy. Vanek called Lindy out after the game and said:

Quote:
„Es ist schwierig, sich umzustellen. Es wäre schön, wenn man mit einer Linie spielt und die Chemie findet“, meinte Vanek. „Aber ich bin es schon gewohnt in den fünf Jahren, die ich da bin. Gegen Ottawa ist es ganz gut gelaufen mit Connolly und Pominville, aber wenn es nicht läuft, ist er (Trainer Ruff, Anm.) gleich beim Zögern, und meistens bin ich derjenige, der weg ist“


Quote:
“It is difficult to adjust. It would be nice if you play with a line and find chemistry. But I'm used to in the five years that I am there. Against Ottawa, it worked very well with Connolly and Pominville, but if it does not work, he quickly changes the line combinations, and mostly I'm the one who is gone".


The next paragraph of this article is:

Quote:
„Das Vanek und Ruff nicht die dicksten Freunde sind, ist ein offenes Geheimnis. In seinem ersten Jahr in der NHL etwa musste der Steirer trotz starker Saison in der entscheidenden Phase der Playoffs zusehen. Vor allem mangelnde Defensivarbeit ist es, was Trainer Ruff an Vanek am liebsten kritisiert. Ein Umstand der schnell mit verkürzter Eiszeit bestraft wird. So auch gegen die New York Rangers.“


Quote:
„That Vanek and Ruff are not best friends is an open secret. In his first year in the NHL the Styrian was benched during critical stages in the playoffs. Above all, lack of defensive work is what coach Ruff criticized the most. A fact that is quickly punished with reduced ice age, like against the Rangers.”


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sabretoothpick
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:07 am 
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gssmvak wrote:
Quote:
.... A fact that is quickly punished with reduced ice age, like against the Rangers.”

:lol:
I don't know why but I lol'd

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Yhoshi
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:18 am 
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my posting is a blue sheet of an/that article. ;)

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YankeeInRaleigh
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:37 am 
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Awesome...just what we need, a divided locker room.

To be honest though, i'd be kind of pissed at Ruff myself, he really does do a bit too much juggling of the lines IMO, if the players are saying they want a chance to develop some chemistry, that is what should happen.


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Keep Ennis on a line with Roy, they have amazing chemistry. Maybe put Vanek on that line or with Pommers and Connolly???

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sabretoothpick
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Vanek also said:

Quote:
I'm focusing on my game. If I get 4 shifts I have to play 4 good shifts, if I get 6 then play 6 good ones. You can't think about it too much, you gotta be happy that you're there and give your best.


I don't think it's all that bad. Of course he is not happy about playing on the third, who would be.
The whole team was bad yesterday, Ruff was just trying to do everything to get them going. If he didn't change the lines everybody would blame him for not trying.

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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:08 pm 
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He's playing with Grier and Nieds. If he scores a goal, I'm Moses.

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fly as hale
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:20 pm 
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No one could ever have the kind of knowledge that would properly gauge what kind of relationship Ruff has with certain players. What is said by fans and the media alike is all just speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt.

I know the head coach is partially responsible when players aren't performing at their best, but I always thought it was such a cop out when people want to blame Lindy when certain players aren't performing the way they should (Vanek, Afinogenov, Kotalik, etc). Vanek is talented enough to persevere through adversity that he faces, whether it's from line juggling, limited shifts, or tension between him and Ruff. Part of being a great player is being able to play through things like that.

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PuckSniperPensel
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:39 pm 
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So basically, Vanek doesn't like being pushed to perform?

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mechaphil
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:01 pm 
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Re: Ennis and Roy being awesome together, they aren't. But that's a topic for another day.

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Wozniak
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:17 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
No one could ever have the kind of knowledge that would properly gauge what kind of relationship Ruff has with certain players. What is said by fans and the media alike is all just speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt.

I know the head coach is partially responsible when players aren't performing at their best, but I always thought it was such a cop out when people want to blame Lindy when certain players aren't performing the way they should (Vanek, Afinogenov, Kotalik, etc). Vanek is talented enough to persevere through adversity that he faces, whether it's from line juggling, limited shifts, or tension between him and Ruff. Part of being a great player is being able to play through things like that.

i agree with you to an extent. the thing is when it comes to line juggling or limited shifts, it really can mess a player up. if vanek gets a point roughly every 10 minutes on the ice and he gets 10 minutes of ice time a game hes a little over a ppg player. if he get 5 minutes of ice time hes point total drops from 82-41 and we go from superstar to bust.

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Toddmh
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:30 pm 
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sounds like Max Afinogenov all over again..


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BlueandYellow
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:03 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Re: Ennis and Roy being awesome together, they aren't. But that's a topic for another day.


Forget Roy has 3 goals and Ennis has 3 assists...

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mechaphil
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:09 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
mechaphil wrote:
Re: Ennis and Roy being awesome together, they aren't. But that's a topic for another day.


Forget Roy has 3 goals and Ennis has 3 assists...

It's all Roy. I'll take Ennis' production, bet your ass I will, but he doesn't gel with Roy and Stafford. Roy being on fire is what is keeping that line together. If Roy wasn't banking pucks into the net from inside a goalkeeper's leg or doing ridiculous toe-drag moves or taking blind clearing attempts and using his magic hands, we'd all be grousing about that line not producing.

I'm all for keeping that line together because the talent is there, but the chemistry is not. And it takes time to build chemistry. Just imagine, if Ennis isn't doing so hot right now, imagine when he catches fire...

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fly as hale
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Wozniak wrote:
i agree with you to an extent. the thing is when it comes to line juggling or limited shifts, it really can mess a player up. if vanek gets a point roughly every 10 minutes on the ice and he gets 10 minutes of ice time a game hes a little over a ppg player. if he get 5 minutes of ice time hes point total drops from 82-41 and we go from superstar to bust.

I know chemistry is extremely important, but Ruff isn't juggling lines just for fun. Vanek isn't producing because he's getting shuffled around, he's getting shuffled around because he isn't producing.

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Yhoshi
 Post subject: Re: Ruff vs. Vanek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:20 pm 
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fly as hale wrote:
Wozniak wrote:
i agree with you to an extent. the thing is when it comes to line juggling or limited shifts, it really can mess a player up. if vanek gets a point roughly every 10 minutes on the ice and he gets 10 minutes of ice time a game hes a little over a ppg player. if he get 5 minutes of ice time hes point total drops from 82-41 and we go from superstar to bust.

I know chemistry is extremely important, but Ruff isn't juggling lines just for fun. Vanek isn't producing because he's getting shuffled around, he's getting shuffled around because he isn't producing.


2 games played . it's time to shuffle around like a monkey on speed in combination with 2 caps of espresso. will we make the playoffs, it's all over now. :?

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