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Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example
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Author:  slesh [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

You want to see progress, look at Tampa Bay.
They have a competitve product built through the draft after seasons of sucking ass.
Buffalo doesn't have that option. And our players are pretty much peaked out as far as production goes for the "CORE". Everyone has seen this coming for 3 seasons now.

And here lay the very foundation of the problem with Regier.
If this team consistantly ends up in the middle or near middle of the pack, its up to Regier to go out and make trades and/or sign FA's that are blockbuster players.

He took a gamble on Briere and brought in Drury, look how that turned out as far as the product on the ice goes. It was fun, it was exciting, they competed.
Why he does not do so now, knowing full well it has to be done, really baffles me.

I mean, really, make the dang blockbuster to bring in a Bobby Ryan type. Sure you give up a great deal, but you get a young, stud, superstar that you can build around with guys like Myers, Ennis, Adam, Kassian and Enroth.

Look folks, stop and think about this, just for a second. We are in a rebuild mode, the core that Darcy had hoped would continue with a competitive nature just hasn't born fruit.
To me in any event, guys like Connolly, Stafford, Vanek, Roy and Pomminville are just components of a trade package to bring in a "TRUE" impact player for the future.
Nothing against Vanek, Roy and Pommers, I want them to stay, but if I have to give to get, then bye bye now, thanks for the memories and have a nice day.

I truly believe Ennis, Adam and Kassian are going to be in this teams top 6 somewhere in the near future, maybe even next season. If that is the case, a Bobby Ryan type certainly couldn't hurt the cause any, and there is more than just him to be traded for as well. And not just forwards, but another young, stud, defenseman.

But it all falls on a decision by management to get it done. Sacrifices have to be made if you want to see a team like Tampa take to the Ice in Blue and Gold.

Author:  fly as hale [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

We are definitely not in rebuild mode.

Author:  slesh [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

fly as hale wrote:
We are definitely not in rebuild mode.

Its an objective opinion fly.
I don't see the current roster making an impact run at anything and we are more than just 2 or 3 components away from it, judging by the product on the ice for the past 4 seasons.

Author:  Sabresfansince1980 [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

New Jersey is another shining example of how making the big splash doesn't equal success. TB is looking good for now (it's about time), but that doesn't mean they are a case study in building a cup contender.

Buffalo was exciting when B and D were here due to accident. They were on the team when the post lock-out no contact/no defense rules were in effect. A smallish but very skilled team like Buffalo was taylor made for that style. Now that team's adjusted and play is more physical (but still cleaner) Buffalo can't compete the same way. This roster would be just as dangerous under the 05-07 style of play, and the 05-07 team would be just as mediocre as this one under a more physical style.

It comes down to mental preparation and a willingness to play 100% every game, all game. It's not there. It could that Ruff is stale to some players. It could be that some have lost confidence in the organization after an off-season with potential and cap room turned out to be underwhelming. Some players just aren't physical and can't change the player they are.

Whatever the case, they have time to figure it out. I like to watch pretty wins, but success boils down to playing good hockey down the stretch and into the playoffs. If they can accomplish that (big question) then October just doesn't matter. Either way they are still just a modest threat to win a cup. It would take a looong time of sucking and no mistakes on top draft picks to succeed enough to make up for the misery. That's quite a gamble considering only Pittsburgh has proven that strategy.

Author:  gr8daygo [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

slesh wrote:
He took a gamble on Briere and brought in Drury, look how that turned out as far as the product on the ice goes. It was fun, it was exciting, they competed.
Why he does not do so now, knowing full well it has to be done, really baffles me.



QUINN has Darcy handcuffed and ball gaged...

Author:  Skyline_BNR34 [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

When Darcy made those moves, Quinn was nowhere to be found.

It sucks we are almost 5 million below the cap because of an internal budget. Give Darcy free reign and I'm sure this team could win a Cup, but we don't have the luxury.

If you don't spend all the money you have, you won't win the big show or even make money, plain and simple.

I know we spent to the cap the last few seasons, but we have plenty of room to get an impact guy on this team at the deadline or before.

Author:  fly as hale [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
New Jersey is another shining example of how making the big splash doesn't equal success. TB is looking good for now (it's about time), but that doesn't mean they are a case study in building a cup contender.

Yep.

Author:  powerplayer [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
New Jersey is another shining example of how making the big splash doesn't equal success.


Bad example.

The Devils move confounded lots of people. You have the most defense-minded team acquiring a primadonna forward who doesn't like to play D. And they sold the friggin' farm to pull it off! Kovy is a superstar, but not all superstars are a good fit, depending on the team being considered.

But let's not get carried away in saying that a superstar isn't a great addition, as they most certainly are in most cases.

Sabresfansince1980 wrote:

Whatever the case, they have time to figure it out. I like to watch pretty wins, but success boils down to playing good hockey down the stretch and into the playoffs. If they can accomplish that (big question) then October just doesn't matter.


Last season's Cane's would disagree. If you get off to a shitty enough start, you can fuck up your whole season. The Canes were horrendous for the first few months last season, but really started playing well in the 2nd half. Guess what? No matter how much ground they made up---and they did make up a lot, they still fell short of the 8th spot.

October DOES matter, especially since I predict parity will not be as dramatic in the East this season and it will be tougher to make up points in the latter part of the seaosn.


Sabresfansince1980 wrote:
Either way they are still just a modest threat to win a cup.


While I do agree that you can never say never, it is also true that the Cup winner is usually a pretty solid team. Lots of strong go-to players. That's the way it should be.

I have not seen a Sabres team that looked like they could win a cup for 4 years. It is only wishful thinking that would make one suspend critical thought where this team is concerned.

And yes, there are teams that "shouldn't" have won the Cup, but did. I disregard that, because it is nothing to hang hopes on---no more than buying a lottery ticket at the same place as the previous winner.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: CHANGE THE CORE.

Until that is done, I won't seriously expect any Cup runs, and I doubt the front office will either, no matter how much they love their players.

Author:  sabres1996 [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

slesh wrote:
You want to see progress, look at Tampa Bay.
They have a competitve product built through the draft after seasons of sucking ass.
Buffalo doesn't have that option. And our players are pretty much peaked out as far as production goes for the "CORE". Everyone has seen this coming for 3 seasons now.

And here lay the very foundation of the problem with Regier.
If this team consistantly ends up in the middle or near middle of the pack, its up to Regier to go out and make trades and/or sign FA's that are blockbuster players.

He took a gamble on Briere and brought in Drury, look how that turned out as far as the product on the ice goes. It was fun, it was exciting, they competed.
Why he does not do so now, knowing full well it has to be done, really baffles me.

I mean, really, make the dang blockbuster to bring in a Bobby Ryan type. Sure you give up a great deal, but you get a young, stud, superstar that you can build around with guys like Myers, Ennis, Adam, Kassian and Enroth.

Look folks, stop and think about this, just for a second. We are in a rebuild mode, the core that Darcy had hoped would continue with a competitive nature just hasn't born fruit.
To me in any event, guys like Connolly, Stafford, Vanek, Roy and Pomminville are just components of a trade package to bring in a "TRUE" impact player for the future.
Nothing against Vanek, Roy and Pommers, I want them to stay, but if I have to give to get, then bye bye now, thanks for the memories and have a nice day.

I truly believe Ennis, Adam and Kassian are going to be in this teams top 6 somewhere in the near future, maybe even next season. If that is the case, a Bobby Ryan type certainly couldn't hurt the cause any, and there is more than just him to be traded for as well. And not just forwards, but another young, stud, defenseman.

But it all falls on a decision by management to get it done. Sacrifices have to be made if you want to see a team like Tampa take to the Ice in Blue and Gold.

How the fuck would you know if Regier is trying to make moves to get players like Bobby Ryan here to Buffalo? Plus, Quinn has Darcy handcuffed so he cant do shit.

Author:  Squanto [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
It sucks we are almost 5 million below the cap because of an internal budget. Give Darcy free reign and I'm sure this team could win a Cup, but we don't have the luxury.


Darcy has had the full resources of the cap every season since the lockout until this year. You're making an excuse for him.

Author:  Displaced Fan [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

It's amazing how married people are to the players we have on this team. I'm sorry but we don't have a legit top goal scorer...we just don't. Anyone that thinks bringing in an elite player would be bad or not matter is fucking high. We have great clay with which to build a team but we lack that main guy on the first line to use as the core.

Author:  Yhoshi [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

*grousing alert orange*

relax, we will win the cup ... everybody knows it, but you.

Author:  Skyline_BNR34 [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Squanto wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
It sucks we are almost 5 million below the cap because of an internal budget. Give Darcy free reign and I'm sure this team could win a Cup, but we don't have the luxury.


Darcy has had the full resources of the cap every season since the lockout until this year. You're making an excuse for him.

I know he has, but it wasn't spent well enough the last two years. We got handcuffed by high player prices, and this year we finally got rid of some of those terrible looking contracts or higher dollar ones.

You can spend the entire cap, but if you don't have it spent the right way you will still suck.

Author:  CriminallyVu1gar [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Idk how Slesh can gripe that certain players are essentially worthless on the basis that they haven't won us a Stanley Cup then come back and laud Tampa Bay when they've done even less.

Author:  fan4life61 [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

tampa has won a cup

Author:  Vanek_Fanatic_26 [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

gr8daygo wrote:
slesh wrote:
He took a gamble on Briere and brought in Drury, look how that turned out as far as the product on the ice goes. It was fun, it was exciting, they competed.
Why he does not do so now, knowing full well it has to be done, really baffles me.



QUINN has Darcy handcuffed and ball gaged...


To the point where he can't trade for two players that don't make much money? That was Briere and Drury at the time.

Author:  Skyline_BNR34 [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Yea, but Tampa has had two number on draft picks in the past 10 years, our team has never once earned the number one overall pick besides the first year the team was around.

Two of the last few winners had number one overall picks on their teams or three or four top five draft picks to win the cup.

Detroit has consistently drafted well and the Ducks were a very well built team, but still had high draft picks. The Sabres just haven't been lucky enough to get these number one draft picks, but in recent years we have started to draft much better. Even if we aren't the team now, we have a plethora of talent coming up and hoping to make a splash.

Ennis, Myers, Kassian, Pysyk, Adam, and other AHL guys. We've started to draft good again, just give it time for those guys to really be a factor on our team.

Author:  CriminallyVu1gar [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

fan4life61 wrote:
tampa has won a cup


He's not talking about that tampa team...

Author:  Squanto [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

slesh wrote:
We are in a rebuild mode, the core that Darcy had hoped would continue with a competitive nature just hasn't born fruit.


A team is rebuild mode is one that moves players for prospects and picks, knowing that they're going to suck.

This team is still trying to win, they're just failing at it.

Now, maybe you want them to dump everyone and go into rebuilding mode, but they're certainly not doing that right now.

Author:  slesh [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tampa Bay Lightning, a shining example

Squanto wrote:
slesh wrote:
We are in a rebuild mode, the core that Darcy had hoped would continue with a competitive nature just hasn't born fruit.


A team is rebuild mode is one that moves players for prospects and picks, knowing that they're going to suck.

This team is still trying to win, they're just failing at it.

Now, maybe you want them to dump everyone and go into rebuilding mode, but they're certainly not doing that right now.

I do agree with you they are failing at it.
I also agree with many that last season was all Miller. Without his season, this team doesn't make the playoffs last season, and I tend to agree with them.

As for the dump everyone and rebuild mode thought, you are correct, they are not doing that now.
But you know what I was getting at in my OP. The possibility is there, and you know it is, to put together a package decent enough to bring in a young, very talented forward without giving up Myers, Ennis, Adam, Enroth, Kassian or other promising prospects.
You are also aware that leaves the core and draft picks to get it done. Connolly and Stafford would be secondary components to such a package, Vanek, Pommers and Roy would be the Primary's of such a package.
Roy especially, considering his contract price.

But the overall point was that it could be done.

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