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One fan's read on Vanek
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Author:  DieHardFan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  One fan's read on Vanek
Having watched Vanek for several years, I find him an improved player, but still largely a role player. Six years into his career, he still isn't a 2-way player, and in fact, remains a defensive liability, as evidenced by his absence from the penalty kill or from late-game situations that require solid defensive play (late in games with opposition pressing or goalie pulled). In games where the Sabres get into penalty trouble, TV becomes a non-factor. And while you can't question his toughness around the net, he's also not a guy that's going to try to mix it up or get physical in defense of a teammate.

I admit I got caught up in the hype of promoting him for captain that ensued after Rivet was gone, but after looking at the big picture, and for the reasons above, I have trouble envisioning him as captain of this team.

His career seems to be following the path of Alex Kovalev - gifted offensive player, but limited in what else he brings to the team.
Author:  Yhoshi [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
he is still the best player of the Buffalo Sabres.

Tell me the NHL players who are better than him. I am waiting for your list.
Author:  mechaphil [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
Oh I see we're back to "Vanek doesn't backcheck"

You haven't watched a single game this season
Author:  sabresrocker56 [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
mechaphil wrote:
Oh I see we're back to "Vanek doesn't backcheck"

You haven't watched a single game this season

This.
Author:  DieHardFan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
I've watched every game this season. Never said his backchecking wasn't improved, but that doesn't make him a 2-way player by any stretch of the imagination.
Author:  PuckSniperPensel [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
Vanek's played very well defensively lately.
Author:  Yhoshi [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
DieHardFan wrote:
I've watched every game this season. Never said his backchecking wasn't improved, but that doesn't make him a 2-way player by any stretch of the imagination.


he has more than two ways of playing hockey.

the camping mode
the sniping and dicking around mode
the playmaker mode
and the oh myy goood, what a goaal mode. :D
Author:  Squanto [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
Jesus.

Vanek scores 40 goals,isn't defensively responsible : "Well he doesn't backcheck and is lazy, so he's no good."

Vanek scores 30 goals, but plays a much more complete game : "Well, he's not scoring enough, so he's no good.

This is moronic. Some of you people will never be satisfied with anything the guy ever does. It's a joke.

Vanek is going to drop 30, and is playing great hockey every time he sees the ice lately. What more do you want?
Author:  DieHardFan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
Squanto wrote:
Jesus.

Vanek scores 40 goals,isn't defensively responsible : "Well he doesn't backcheck and is lazy, so he's no good."

Vanek scores 30 goals, but plays a much more complete game : "Well, he's not scoring enough, so he's no good.

This is moronic. Some of you people will never be satisfied with anything the guy ever does. It's a joke.

Vanek is going to drop 30, and is playing great hockey every time he sees the ice lately. What more do you want?


Dude, relax.

Who the hell ever said he isn't good??? God, this place is hostile. I just said I don't think he fits the captain mold. There's no shame in that. You look at other forward captains around the league - they average 3 minutes more ice time per game, more often than not play dual roles on the PP and PK, are on the ice in the most critical junctures of the game, and/or mix it up in defense of a teammate.

Maybe there's nobody more suited on this team. But I just don't see him being effective in that role.

Sorry that pisses you off.
Author:  Squanto [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
DieHardFan wrote:
His career seems to be following the path of Alex Kovalev - gifted offensive player, but limited in what else he brings to the team.


Who cares about the captain stuff.

If you're going to make a comment like this, you're not really watching the guy play.
Author:  DieHardFan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
Squanto wrote:
DieHardFan wrote:
His career seems to be following the path of Alex Kovalev - gifted offensive player, but limited in what else he brings to the team.


Who cares about the captain stuff.

If you're going to make a comment like this, you're not really watching the guy play.


Ummm... that was kinda the point of the thread.

I've watched almost every game he's played in his NHL career. Kovalev was a scoring stud in his prime. Vanek is too. Their styles are much different, but they both put up points and don't contribute much defensively or physically. Is that really a disagreeable statement?
Author:  PuckSniperPensel [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
I agree with DieHard about Vanek not getting the captaincy.

I think Gaustad is a more formidable leader, and we've heard through lots of tidbits from the locker room that he's the guy staying vocal and holding people accountable.

It's also been said that he's the guy who's most respected amongst the players.

Vanek deserves an A, but if it were my choice, Goose gets the C.
Author:  BlueandYellow [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
His main role isn't to play defense. Forwards are meant to chip in a bit, and he does plenty of that. Expecting him to be a 40 goal scorer AND Nick Lidstrom isn't wise. For his position, he does plenty of defense.
Author:  X-pensfan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
DieHardFan wrote:
Having watched Vanek for several years, I find him an improved player, but still largely a role player. Six years into his career, he still isn't a 2-way player, and in fact, remains a defensive liability, as evidenced by his absence from the penalty kill or from late-game situations that require solid defensive play (late in games with opposition pressing or goalie pulled). In games where the Sabres get into penalty trouble, TV becomes a non-factor. And while you can't question his toughness around the net, he's also not a guy that's going to try to mix it up or get physical in defense of a teammate.

I admit I got caught up in the hype of promoting him for captain that ensued after Rivet was gone, but after looking at the big picture, and for the reasons above, I have trouble envisioning him as captain of this team.

His career seems to be following the path of Alex Kovalev - gifted offensive player, but limited in what else he brings to the team.



Yeah, not sure what you want from Vanek.

Some people want every player to be 6'5" 240 lbs, extremely fast skater, works harder than anybody else, physical, intimidating, but never takes bad penalties, scores 100 points and 50 goals every single season, is the greatest leader in the league, and is a Selke finalist every season. Not even the top 5 players in the world come close to approaching this "perfect" player. If you are one of these people, then prepare to be disappointed by every player you ever watch play for your team.

I can't think of a worse player to compare him too, Kovalev does not EVEN BOTHER with defense. He will feebly wave his stick at a player from time to time but even in his prime he was never passionate about playing defense. Vanek back checks as hard as he can every shift, it's clearly obvious that he takes great pride in his defensive play. Vanek is simply not a great start and stop skater, and I can think of several other reasons why not to play him on the PK (injury, fatigue..). But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a great PKer, that's just not his specialty at this point in his career.

My only gripe on Vanek is that he doesn't shoot enough, and he sometimes makes passes that simply are not there. His shot is phenomenal, he could be a 50 goal, 30 assist player if he just changed his mindset. You cannot score 40-50 goals if you're thinking pass as much as he has this season, and I think a part of the reason why his passes aren't connecting is because his linemates are shocked that he isn't shooting. I mean, there is NO SHAME in having more goals than assists, who GAF if people call you "selfish"? It's disgraceful not to use that shot all the time every time, a waste of God given ability IMO.

Other than that he's an amazing player, a great leader, and a good guy. He's put together a rock solid season, and I he's an asset to the team in any situation and in any zone of play.
Author:  PuckSniperPensel [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
BlueandYellow wrote:
His main role isn't to play defense. Forwards are meant to chip in a bit, and he does plenty of that. Expecting him to be a 40 goal scorer AND Nick Lidstrom isn't wise. For his position, he does plenty of defense.


He didn't gripe out Vanek not being a 40 goal scorer, did he?

He didn't say he wanted Vanek to be Nick Lidstrom, did he?

Wasn't he just comparing Vanek's capacity to play lock down D versus others on the team, and how he feels that it should have an impact on the team's upcoming decision on their captaincy?

You are all blowing his post way out of proportion.

Is he wrong in saying that Vanek is not on the ice with a minute left and the team up by a goal? When have you ever seen that happen?

The only thing I disagree about in his original post is that Vanek is a defensive liability. He usually does pretty well. Every now and then he'll get stung looking for the fast break out to get a goal, but he's not a terrible defender.
Author:  Squanto [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Is he wrong in saying that Vanek is not on the ice with a minute left and the team up by a goal? When have you ever seen that happen?


Why would you do that? In that situation YOU PUT YOUR BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYERS ON THE ICE. The fact that Vanek isn't on the ice in that situation doesn't hold any water. Nobody would include Vanek in the best defensive forwards on the team, and that's who you want out there.

The penalty killing argument also makes no sense.

Shorthand TOI, total, season
Vanek, Thomas 5:05
Crosby, Sidney 19:21
Ovechkin, Alex 3:35

Are those players 'not captain worthy' because they don't kill penalties either?

This is hilarious. DHF's argument is clearly stated in this sentence.

DieHardFan wrote:
His career seems to be following the path of Alex Kovalev - gifted offensive player, but limited in what else he brings to the team.


The point he's attempting to make is that Vanek does nothing but try and score, ala Kovalev. Anyone who watches Vanek play can objectively see that's not the case.
Author:  Skyline_BNR34 [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
The only player I can recall who plays the ok and can be a ppg man is most likely the one and only mike Richards. How many other players can play as well as he on the back end and still be a force on offense.

Vanek has done a great job this year in backchecking and being in theroght spot on defense when he needs to be. If you think he hasn't you're in the wrong by not watching him play at all this year.
Author:  Displaced Fan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
The only player I can recall who plays the ok and can be a ppg man is most likely the one and only mike Richards. How many other players can play as well as he on the back end and still be a force on offense.

Vanek has done a great job this year in backchecking and being in theroght spot on defense when he needs to be. If you think he hasn't you're in the wrong by not watching him play at all this year.


Yup. Vanek has changed his game around and now wheels back into the D zone as fast as he can and is constantly battling back there. He's the hardest working guy on the team in my opinion outside of perhaps Miller.
Author:  ironyisadeadscene [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
fuck vanek. he hasnt gotten a shut out all season either. complete player my ass.
Author:  Displaced Fan [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One fan's read on Vanek
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
fuck vanek. he hasnt gotten a shut out all season either. complete player my ass.

I see what you did there. :lol:
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