:: View topic - Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?

I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it:

You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there...

^ That's the best explanation I've seen but it still doesn't work - Roy gets 1st line minutes while Vanek typically gets 2nd line minutes.

The team was better off with out him
He wants to be the center of attention. Vanek was more the playmaker when roy went down and said that when he plays with derek, derek carries the puck up.

A number one center makes the players around him better, gets his points, and dominates competition.

Roy gets his points.

I don't agree that the team was better off without Roy. Just because he and Vanek don't always mesh well doesn't mean that the team was better off with Roy injured.

I'm guilty of this also, but the way Ruff handles the lines, using the terms "#1" and "#2" doesn't really mean much......
(deleted)
Regardless of the numbers though, Roy and Leino don't have to be penciled in as #1 and #2, they just have to center a scoring line and produce with their linemates. Each scoring line will get about the same minutes, and likely get jumbled up on a regular basis anyway since Ruff can't stick to any combination for more than two games. Roy doesn't have to pair with Vanek if they each produce or play better apart, and which "number" line they play on really won't matter.

Sabresfansince1980 wrote:

That's my thought, too. Line #1 or #2 are just designators anyway. It's going to make more sense (to me) if we go back to scoring by committee. Let the other teams worry about covering our "best" line. Whatever. We'll score with the "other" guys.

I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it:

You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there...

Seanothan27 wrote:

I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it:

You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there...

I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center

patkane88 wrote:

Seanothan27 wrote:

I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it:

You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there...

I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center

Krejci is a good center but he's no where near Roy in terms of productivity. I would take Roy over Krejci every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Krecji is someone who fits the bill as a 2nd line center perfectly.

patkane88 wrote:

Seanothan27 wrote:

I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it:

You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there...

I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center

Author:	schooner44 [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
Seriously I'm asking for peoples' opinions. Over the last 5 seasons, he has 318 points in 350 games. I'm not saying he's an elite player like Stamkos but at .909 points per game, I would say he's probably more productive than at least half the top line centers in the league. Over that same time period... Brad Richards played in 364 games and amassed 348 points which equates to .956 points per game. Jonathan Toews played in 302 games (only 4 seasons in NHL) and amassed 267 points which equates to .884 points per game. Pavel Datsyuk played in 378 games and amassed 410 points which equates to 1.085 points per game. Jason Spezza played in 347 games and amassed 366 points which equates to 1.055 points per game. Vincent Lecavalier played in 387 games and amassed 391 points which equates to 1.010 points per game. Thats a group of centers that I think any hockey fan would be ok with any of them on your team as your top center. Roy isn't quite there with some of these guys but the numbers show he is in the vicinity of what a top line center should produce. Roy is better than any center on the Bruins and they just won the cup!

Author:	Seanothan27 [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it: You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there...

Author:	sabres1996 [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
I've always thought of Roy as a number 1 Center, it just never came up in the threads for me to say anything.

Author:	Vanek_Fanatic_26 [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
Seanothan27 wrote: I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it: You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there... Boston has a lot of big, tough people though. They reminded me of the 2006-07 Ducks that just wore teams out with tons of hitting and physical play.

Author:	OldTimeHockey [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
Because he has no chemistry with Vanek and you need your top line center to feed the goal scoring wingers. We have now 10.3 to 10.8 millions dollars invested on the wings of our top line. If he can figure out how to work with Vanek better, then I think he is capable of being a #1 center. In 35 games last year he was a point per game player, 10G, 25A. But after he was injured, Vanek got to carry the puck more and his game got a lot better. Bascially, Derek has to allow Vanek to carry the puck up the ice more often.

http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/

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Author:	mechaphil [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
^ That's the best explanation I've seen but it still doesn't work - Roy gets 1st line minutes while Vanek typically gets 2nd line minutes.

Author:	OldTimeHockey [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
mechaphil wrote: ^ That's the best explanation I've seen but it still doesn't work - Roy gets 1st line minutes while Vanek typically gets 2nd line minutes. I know that Vanek doesn't get time on the PK which Derek does, so that's a decent chunk of the time difference isn't it? That's one of my biggest bones to pick with our coach. Vanek should get 2-4 more minutes a game. Paying a player $6.3M for barely 17 minutes of ice time per night confounds me. I really can't see how getting 19-21 minutes a night will wear him out. Maybe it does though. If Vanek is gonna wear the C this year...his minutes need to go up.

Author:	psychemedisabrefan [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
The team was better off with out him He wants to be the center of attention. Vanek was more the playmaker when roy went down and said that when he plays with derek, derek carries the puck up. A number one center makes the players around him better, gets his points, and dominates competition. Roy gets his points.

Author:	backthatSASSup [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
psychemedisabrefan wrote: The team was better off with out him He wants to be the center of attention. Vanek was more the playmaker when roy went down and said that when he plays with derek, derek carries the puck up. A number one center makes the players around him better, gets his points, and dominates competition. Roy gets his points. I don't agree that the team was better off without Roy. Just because he and Vanek don't always mesh well doesn't mean that the team was better off with Roy injured.

Author:	shedoesntgetit [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
backthatSASSup wrote: I don't agree that the team was better off without Roy. Just because he and Vanek don't always mesh well doesn't mean that the team was better off with Roy injured. agreed. and if roy didn't tear it up for the team in the first half of the season, this team might not have even made the playoffs, even though the other guys seemed to come around once he was injured.

Author:	Sabresfansince1980 [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
I'm guilty of this also, but the way Ruff handles the lines, using the terms "#1" and "#2" doesn't really mean much. IMO, any center that scores 70+ pts in the NHL these days (not the good old '80s and early '90s) can be considered a "#1" center. Consider these stats for 70+ pt players since Roy became a top two center... 2010-11 - 24 players had 70+ pts, 10 centers, Roy was on a 82 pt pace 2009-10 - 30 players, 15 centers, Roy had 69 pts 2008-09 - 40 players, 16 centers, Roy had 70 pts 2007-08 - 39 players, 20 centers, Roy had 81 pts Since Roy took a top two line assignment, he has been one of the top 16 centers as far as pts, and has always been a good defensive player and PKer, which not all top pt producing centers are. Yeah, he's carried to the puck too much and not made the most out of centering Vanek, but all in all he ranks with the other top centers in the NHL. He actually ranks at about halfway down the list of top centers, so it could be argued that he's easily a #1 center and well above all other #2 centers. Regardless of the numbers though, Roy and Leino don't have to be penciled in as #1 and #2, they just have to center a scoring line and produce with their linemates. Each scoring line will get about the same minutes, and likely get jumbled up on a regular basis anyway since Ruff can't stick to any combination for more than two games. Roy doesn't have to pair with Vanek if they each produce or play better apart, and which "number" line they play on really won't matter.

Author:	Nuthatch [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
Sabresfansince1980 wrote: I'm guilty of this also, but the way Ruff handles the lines, using the terms "#1" and "#2" doesn't really mean much...... (deleted) Regardless of the numbers though, Roy and Leino don't have to be penciled in as #1 and #2, they just have to center a scoring line and produce with their linemates. Each scoring line will get about the same minutes, and likely get jumbled up on a regular basis anyway since Ruff can't stick to any combination for more than two games. Roy doesn't have to pair with Vanek if they each produce or play better apart, and which "number" line they play on really won't matter. That's my thought, too. Line #1 or #2 are just designators anyway. It's going to make more sense (to me) if we go back to scoring by committee. Let the other teams worry about covering our "best" line. Whatever. We'll score with the "other" guys.

Author:	OldTimeHockey [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
Nuthatch wrote: Sabresfansince1980 wrote: I'm guilty of this also, but the way Ruff handles the lines, using the terms "#1" and "#2" doesn't really mean much...... (deleted) Regardless of the numbers though, Roy and Leino don't have to be penciled in as #1 and #2, they just have to center a scoring line and produce with their linemates. Each scoring line will get about the same minutes, and likely get jumbled up on a regular basis anyway since Ruff can't stick to any combination for more than two games. Roy doesn't have to pair with Vanek if they each produce or play better apart, and which "number" line they play on really won't matter. That's my thought, too. Line #1 or #2 are just designators anyway. It's going to make more sense (to me) if we go back to scoring by committee. Let the other teams worry about covering our "best" line. Whatever. We'll score with the "other" guys. You don't have a line that's making $6.3M + $4.5M (Leino and Roy make about the same) + $4M so the "other guys" on other lines can score goals. The cap is $64M, the Sabres have about $15M in cap in that one line...it better score and score often. Unless Roy can be okay with Vanek carrying the puck, Leino is the guy to center his line.

Author:	patkane88 [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
Seanothan27 wrote: I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it: You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there... I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center

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Author:	schooner44 [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
patkane88 wrote: Seanothan27 wrote: I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it: You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there... I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center Krejci is a good center but he's no where near Roy in terms of productivity. I would take Roy over Krejci every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Krecji is someone who fits the bill as a 2nd line center perfectly.

Author:	Jammerz04 [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
psychemedisabrefan wrote: The team was better off with out him He wants to be the center of attention. Vanek was more the playmaker when roy went down and said that when he plays with derek, derek carries the puck up. A number one center makes the players around him better, gets his points, and dominates competition. Roy gets his points. So true. That's exactly why he shouldn't be our number 1 center.

Author:	CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
oops

Author:	OldTimeHockey [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
schooner44 wrote: patkane88 wrote: Seanothan27 wrote: I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it: You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there... I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center Krejci is a good center but he's no where near Roy in terms of productivity. I would take Roy over Krejci every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Krecji is someone who fits the bill as a 2nd line center perfectly. Given his play in the playoffs, I think I might go with Krejci. He's one of the handful of skaters for the Bruins that make it more difficult to hate the Bruins. Watching him, Bergereon, and Marchand almost make listening to Jack Adams palatable.

Author:	patkane88 [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why can't Roy be a #1 Center?
schooner44 wrote: patkane88 wrote: Seanothan27 wrote: I just posted this on another thread, but fuck it: You could make a strong argument that Boston does not have a #1 center, either. And things seem to be going pretty good over there... I disagree david krejci is a hell of a center Krejci is a good center but he's no where near Roy in terms of productivity. I would take Roy over Krejci every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Krecji is someone who fits the bill as a 2nd line center perfectly. I am no fan of Roy but I would take krejci over Roy because of how Roy does not show up in the playoffs. Inknow Roy was hurt last year in the playoffs but last time in 2007 he was not that great but that is just me.