:: View topic - Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner

the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice.

Wozniak wrote:

the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice.

And for 40+ years, they haven't won a cup.

Although, I'd argue that the 99 Cup team was pretty damn tough.

the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice.

Wozniak wrote:

the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice.

did you not watch them through all of the mid to late nineties?

so you're saying you didn't watch them? varada, peca, ward, mckee, gilmour, houda, rassmussen, brown

This team isn't a Stanley Cup team. Not even close.

Lets take a look at the teams that have won the cup since the lockout, as well as the runners up, shall we?

2006 Carolina Hurricanes (EC) Peter Laviolette Edmonton Oilers (WC) Craig MacTavish 4–3
2007 Anaheim Ducks (WC) Randy Carlyle Ottawa Senators (EC) Bryan Murray 4–1
2008 Detroit Red Wings (WC) Mike Babcock Pittsburgh Penguins (EC) Michel Therrien 4–2
2009 Pittsburgh Penguins (EC) Dan Bylsma Detroit Red Wings (WC) Mike Babcock 4–3
2010 Chicago Blackhawks (WC) Joel Quenneville Philadelphia Flyers (EC) Peter Laviolette 4–2
2011 Boston Bruins (EC) Claude Julien Vancouver Canucks (WC) Alain Vigneault 4–3

What do all of these cup winners have in common? They had the right balance of size and skill, as well as a big time mean streak to their games.

What did all the cup losers have in common, outside of MAYBE Pittsburgh? They weren't tough enough to match the physicality of their opposition.

Having said that, lets take a look at the Sabres starting defense, and tell me which players opposing forwards are supposed to be afraid of going into the corners?

Regehr-Myers
Ehrhoff-Leopold
Gragnani-Sekera

....

The sizable Red Wings showed us last night just how ineffective our defense is at knocking them off the puck. This team isn't a Stanley Cup team. Not even close.

Gotta run for now, but I'm going to pick on the forwards too, and then propose some trade ideas.

We only need 1 or 2 puck moving D men. Myers, and Ehrhoff. Leopold is decent defensively so don't worry about him. Send Grags down to the AHL, trade or waive Sekera, then you'll put Weber and McNabb in. Then you'll have

Regher
Myers
Ehrhoff
Weber
McNabb
Leopold
(7th defensemen, maybe keep Sekera or whatever)

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:47 am ]
Post subject:	Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
Lets take a look at the teams that have won the cup since the lockout, as well as the runners up, shall we? 2006 Carolina Hurricanes (EC) Peter Laviolette Edmonton Oilers (WC) Craig MacTavish 4–3 2007 Anaheim Ducks (WC) Randy Carlyle Ottawa Senators (EC) Bryan Murray 4–1 2008 Detroit Red Wings (WC) Mike Babcock Pittsburgh Penguins (EC) Michel Therrien 4–2 2009 Pittsburgh Penguins (EC) Dan Bylsma Detroit Red Wings (WC) Mike Babcock 4–3 2010 Chicago Blackhawks (WC) Joel Quenneville Philadelphia Flyers (EC) Peter Laviolette 4–2 2011 Boston Bruins (EC) Claude Julien Vancouver Canucks (WC) Alain Vigneault 4–3 What do all of these cup winners have in common? They had the right balance of size and skill, as well as a big time mean streak to their games. What did all the cup losers have in common, outside of MAYBE Pittsburgh? They weren't tough enough to match the physicality of their opposition. Having said that, lets take a look at the Sabres starting defense, and tell me which players opposing forwards are supposed to be afraid of going into the corners? Regehr-Myers Ehrhoff-Leopold Gragnani-Sekera .... The sizable Red Wings showed us last night just how ineffective our defense is at knocking them off the puck. This team isn't a Stanley Cup team. Not even close. Gotta run for now, but I'm going to pick on the forwards too, and then propose some trade ideas.

Author:	Jammerz04 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:59 am ]
Post subject:	McNabb Can Stay
Honestly I wouldn't mind putting sekera on waivers... Or Darcy has to make something happen and soon on the trade front... Grags needs a Lil more time in the ahl to make a real impact. To much pressure on him from last year great performance in playoffs... Best to send him down unless he has to clear waivers... Ducks prolly looking for puck moving dman sekera or grags would fit the bill

Author:	Sabresfansince1980 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
I thought the d-corps would be very good this season, but I figured the pairs would be split with one big physical guy with one offensive minded skater. Lindy has shuffled the d-men around as much or more than his usual forward line tinkering. I know we should have some better talent, but Ruff needs to just settle on pairings and leave them the fuck alone for a while. Sekera's contract (while I hoped he'd be traded) and playing Gragnani over Weber just doesn't make sense to me. Ehrhoff was the new shiny toy Ruff wanted, and that's great because I wanted him too, but we don't need three other Ehrhoff wannabes. Ditch Sekera and Gragnani any way possible, replace them with stay-at-homers, but more importantly Ruff has to give up on his "one d-man is the 4th forward" concept.

Author:	Wozniak [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice.

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
Wozniak wrote: the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice. And for 40+ years, they haven't won a cup. Although, I'd argue that the 99 Cup team was pretty damn tough.

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Author:	ironyisadeadscene [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
ya what though? the sabres played like shit almost all game, and outside the first period, they were the better team.

Author:	Jammerz04 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
Wozniak wrote: the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice. Yup gritt and size have always been THE issue for this team. But our future looks bright and rugged... But besides that point a new issue has also made headway and thats offense... Teams have learned that Vanek/Poms line is all we have on the offensive side of things and if they shut that line down we will be hard pressed for any goals...Darcy needs to address this ASAP or we will be on the outside looking in come April maybe even sooner. Either way I doubt Darcy can get couple of d-men and a high level scoring forward by the end of this season so maybe this team could have that miracle season which is what I'm hoping for.... Common Leino your our last hope, gel with these mo fo's

Author:	PatGreen [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
Wozniak wrote: the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice. did you not watch them through all of the mid to late nineties?

Author:	Wozniak [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
PatGreen wrote: Wozniak wrote: the sabres have NEVER been a big bodied/checking/feared team. since their creation they have been a smaller, quicker team that has always been out muscled on the ice. did you not watch them through all of the mid to late nineties? May, Ray and Barnaby...sure they could fight but couldnt do anything besides that. If you do want to count them then your looking at 4/41 years where those 3 were together on Buffalo.

Author:	PatGreen [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
so you're saying you didn't watch them? varada, peca, ward, mckee, gilmour, houda, rassmussen, brown

Author:	Wozniak [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
PatGreen wrote: so you're saying you didn't watch them? varada, peca, ward, mckee, gilmour, houda, rassmussen, brown all 5'10" of Peca going into the boards isnt going to scare anyone. Houda was absolute garbage (66 games played, 7pts, 120PMI). Varada wasnt much better (1.4PMI/Game). In Rasmussen's 260 games as a Sabre he averaged .63PMI per game with a whopping 54pnts. Brown averaged 35PIM a season in Buffalo. McKee average just shy of 1PMI/game Ward was a .5PMI/game person. Most of the guys you listed were 6'0"ish 200lbish players who averaged 20-30PMI/season and did little else. none of the guys you listed i would count as being a big body player that could out muscle opposing teams and actualy help the team win.

Author:	PatGreen [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
the sabres were knownn as the toughest, most hard working, grinding team in the league for about 10 years. penalty minutes have nothing do with being physical. did you know peca was one of the biggest hitters in the league in the 90's? he had a reputation as a reason.

Author:	sabresindc [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
A couple hits from Peca. he may have been small but he still hit hard.

Author:	BlueandYellow [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
We only need 1 or 2 puck moving D men. Myers, and Ehrhoff. Leopold is decent defensively so don't worry about him. Send Grags down to the AHL, trade or waive Sekera, then you'll put Weber and McNabb in. Then you'll have Regher Myers Ehrhoff Weber McNabb Leopold (7th defensemen, maybe keep Sekera or whatever)

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Author:	Sabresfansince1980 [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
That's basically what I'd like to see. The exact pairings don't matter so much to me as long as it's a puck mover with a stay-at-homer, but I really just want Ruff to set them and leave them alone until injury. @#$% I just don't understand how shuffling them around every game is supposed to help.

Author:	Mr. Natural [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
PuckSniperPensel wrote: This team isn't a Stanley Cup team. Not even close. I hope you are wrong, because this is going to be the team for the foreseeable future. Ryan Miller, Ehrhoff, Myers, Vanek, Stafford, Sekera, Gerbe, and Leino are all under long term contracts, meaning there is not much room for growth over the next few years. Any extra money the team manages to scrap together will go to re-signing Pominville and Roy. Either this is our Stanley Cup team or we continue to wander in the wilderness of lost championships for another five years.

Author:	DieHardFan [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
PuckSniperPensel wrote: Lets take a look at the teams that have won the cup since the lockout, as well as the runners up, shall we? 2006 Carolina Hurricanes (EC) Peter Laviolette Edmonton Oilers (WC) Craig MacTavish 4–3 2007 Anaheim Ducks (WC) Randy Carlyle Ottawa Senators (EC) Bryan Murray 4–1 2008 Detroit Red Wings (WC) Mike Babcock Pittsburgh Penguins (EC) Michel Therrien 4–2 2009 Pittsburgh Penguins (EC) Dan Bylsma Detroit Red Wings (WC) Mike Babcock 4–3 2010 Chicago Blackhawks (WC) Joel Quenneville Philadelphia Flyers (EC) Peter Laviolette 4–2 2011 Boston Bruins (EC) Claude Julien Vancouver Canucks (WC) Alain Vigneault 4–3 What do all of these cup winners have in common? They had the right balance of size and skill, as well as a big time mean streak to their games. What did all the cup losers have in common, outside of MAYBE Pittsburgh? They weren't tough enough to match the physicality of their opposition. Having said that, lets take a look at the Sabres starting defense, and tell me which players opposing forwards are supposed to be afraid of going into the corners? Regehr-Myers Ehrhoff-Leopold Gragnani-Sekera .... The sizable Red Wings showed us last night just how ineffective our defense is at knocking them off the puck. This team isn't a Stanley Cup team. Not even close. Gotta run for now, but I'm going to pick on the forwards too, and then propose some trade ideas. I gotta disagree wholeheartedly with this post. First of all, are the Sabres good enough to win the cup right now? No, of course they're not, but it's early December, they've been racked with injuries, and have a lot of new pieces trying to find chemistry. But there's a reason the playoffs start in April, and they will be a more cohesive team by then. Secondly, about the toughness... I think you are overreacting to the one Boston game. I don't think their lack of toughness has had much of anything to do with their current situation. I've witnessed a major lack of finish on scoring chances (not a lack of chances) and a litany of unforced turnovers and mental errors. To me, these are correctable deficits. Third, you really think Vancouver, Philly, and Detroit lost the last 3 cups because they weren't tough enough? Boston won that series (in 7 games no less) largely because Thomas was a wall and Luongo sucked. Detroit also lost by a single goal in game 7, so you can't argue they weren't tough enough to win. I'll give you the Senators, but they're the only one on that list that was clearly dominated by a physically superior opponent. Also, look at the Lightning last year, one game and one goal away from the finals, and against the big bad Bruins no less. If a team like Tampa, with limited skill and a 42 yo goaltender, can compete with Boston and be a contender for the cup, I can't look at this Sabres team and agree with your statement that they aren't even close. I think Myers, Regehr, and Ehrhoff are capable of carrying this team defensively, and if McNabb or Weber develop and contribute as stay at home, physical defensemen, I'm okay with this D moving forward. I'm not saying that they should sit pat and not look to improve. And yeah, they've laid a few eggs this year, including against Detroit. But that's gonna happen over the course of a long season, there will be some really bad games. Let's see how they look in mid February.

Author:	SabresBillsFan [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Transforming the Sabres into a Cup Winner
BlueandYellow wrote: We only need 1 or 2 puck moving D men. Myers, and Ehrhoff. Leopold is decent defensively so don't worry about him. Send Grags down to the AHL, trade or waive Sekera, then you'll put Weber and McNabb in. Then you'll have Regher Myers Ehrhoff Weber McNabb Leopold (7th defensemen, maybe keep Sekera or whatever) I think we have way too offensive defenseman that lack toughness and need to unload a couple of them. You look at past cup winning teams they didn't have as many offensive defenseman as the sabres have right now. I know McNabb has alot of offensive upside from the backend but at least he is feared for throwing open ice hits and plays tough. I would be happy with Buffalo unloading Sekera, Grag's, Stafford and Roy. These 4 should be able to bring us at least 1 solid centerman and at least another skilled offensive player that would at least show up night to night not like that bum Stafford. I just love it last year that Sekera comes off his benching and has a couple of great weeks and we pay him big money based on his potential. Stafford at the end of his entry level contract and has a solid year and we pay him big money based on his 30 goals. Don't get me wrong the guy can put the puck in the net. Where I have an issue with him is he needs to show up each and every night. Keep McNabb up and Kassian up full time and let them learn at the NHL level. McNabb and Kassian are beasts and they bring much added toughness.