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| Defensive Zone Woes http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7022 |
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| Author: | DieHardFan [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Defensive Zone Woes |
Yeah, I watch a lot more Sabres' games than any other team, but it seems to me like they are among the worst (if not the worst) team in the league in getting the puck out of their zone. They get control of the puck, then give it up. Every game, when a guy has the puck on his stick in the D-zone, there are multiple times when he feathers a soft pass to another guy a few feet away that gets picked off and sent right back in, and then we're left reeling for the next 30-60 seconds while the opposition gets its forecheck going and has scoring chances, which then leaves our guys gassed. Sometimes they give it up under pressure, and sometimes no pressure at all (e.g. Bruins' tying and go-ahead goals). Is this part of Lindy's "system" to make soft tic-tac-toe passes in your own zone to generate speed coming out of the D-zone to result in up-ice rushes? They don't make the opponent work hard enough to get O-zone time and possession. |
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| Author: | YankeeInRaleigh [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
Agreed. |
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| Author: | Sabresfansince1980 [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
That's exactly how Philly beat them in April. With three new and better d-men last night the same thing was going on. It's not proof of much, seeing as they were a tired crew, but maybe it's an indication. |
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| Author: | BlueandYellow [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
It's not only the D-men. The forwards do it, too. When a guy's coming at them they panic and just randomly smack the puck and it's a turnover. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
When a team is having defensive problems, this happens a lot. When they aren't, the first pass out is quick and crisp. Happens to pretty much every team in the league from time to time. |
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| Author: | BlueandYellow [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
I think our guys aren't able to ever get open, either. You see our guys when they get the pass and there's a guy right next to him either intercepting it or deflecting it. Our guys need to skate to get open from the other team's defense. |
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| Author: | sabresindc [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
So what I'm reading here is that they need to change their work ethic??? Seems to be a reoccurring problem. |
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| Author: | Markus [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Defensive Zone Woes |
Noticed this more than ever during the Bruins game. It seems that we have problems passing to ourselves even when there is no opposition in between. We get caught waiting a lot for a perfect pass, and then end up being punked by a single forechecker. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
sabresindc wrote: So what I'm reading here is that they need to change their work ethic??? Seems to be a reoccurring problem. What you're reading is a gross oversimplification under the assumption that this happens only to the Sabres. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
i think what he's stating is that it happens more often with the sabres than with other teams. which is pretty hard to disprove. |
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| Author: | DieHardFan [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
Markus wrote: Noticed this more than ever during the Bruins game. It seems that we have problems passing to ourselves even when there is no opposition in between. We get caught waiting a lot for a perfect pass, and then end up being punked by a single forechecker. This. Seems like the entire system is predicated on the perfect breakout, in order to create an up ice rush, which is the main way this team scores goals, as opposed to good puck possession, cycling and forecheck. How much more often are we hemmed in our own zone from good forechecking than the opposition, due to mistakes getting out of our zone trying to find the perfect pass. Not much has changed since 2005. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
PatGreen wrote: i think what he's stating is that it happens more often with the sabres than with other teams. which is pretty hard to disprove. I guess. I'd disagree with that myself, as I see it happen to lots of teams, good and bad, all the time. If you can't disprove it, you can't really prove it either. 
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| Author: | DieHardFan [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
Squanto wrote: PatGreen wrote: i think what he's stating is that it happens more often with the sabres than with other teams. which is pretty hard to disprove. I guess. I'd disagree with that myself, as I see it happen to lots of teams, good and bad, all the time. If you can't disprove it, you can't really prove it either. You've got to admit that the Sabres spend more time in their own zone than in the opposition's, much of which is due to mistakes/inability to get the puck out. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
DieHardFan wrote: Squanto wrote: PatGreen wrote: i think what he's stating is that it happens more often with the sabres than with other teams. which is pretty hard to disprove. I guess. I'd disagree with that myself, as I see it happen to lots of teams, good and bad, all the time. If you can't disprove it, you can't really prove it either. You've got to admit that the Sabres spend more time in their own zone than in the opposition's, much of which is due to mistakes/inability to get the puck out. Offensive zone time hasn't been tracked in almost 10 years, so unless you're watching every game with a stopwatch and comparing the data, you don't know that's true. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
well you have a pretty reasonable correlation in shots for/against |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
I'd disagree. Teams can get a lot of shots, yet be one and done every trip down. In that case, a team is doing a great job clearing the zone, but the shot total would be high. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
To be 100% clear on this too, I don't disagree that the Sabres do have problems from time to time with zone exists. What I disagree with is the blanket assumption that they're better/worse than any other team overall without some stats to back it up. I see plenty of games night in and night out that a team being forechecked well has a hard time moving around in their own zone, as well as trouble with exits. It's not unique to the Sabres at all. |
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| Author: | daz28 [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
I'm not a big fan of our gap control or puck pressure in our own end. Teams are putting more forecheck on the teams that they see playing the 'safer' style which keeps shots further out but allows more of them. This has always been a hallmark of LR's teams, and we aren't fielding the personnel capable of running it. This style requires a team effort, and allows for very little error. If you screw up on this(like Ehrhoff did twice last night and one other person once) it destroys the benefits of it altogether. |
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| Author: | DieHardFan [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
Squanto wrote: DieHardFan wrote: Squanto wrote: PatGreen wrote: i think what he's stating is that it happens more often with the sabres than with other teams. which is pretty hard to disprove. I guess. I'd disagree with that myself, as I see it happen to lots of teams, good and bad, all the time. If you can't disprove it, you can't really prove it either. You've got to admit that the Sabres spend more time in their own zone than in the opposition's, much of which is due to mistakes/inability to get the puck out. Offensive zone time hasn't been tracked in almost 10 years, so unless you're watching every game with a stopwatch and comparing the data, you don't know that's true. If you would argue, on average, that they are spending equal or more time in the O-zone, you're not watching the games. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Defensive Zone Woes |
DieHardFan wrote: If you would argue, on average, that they are spending equal or more time in the O-zone, you're not watching the games. And this is where I will cease discussing this with you. Unless you have some numbers to back up your point, you have no proof that this is true, and it's pointless to continue. |
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