:: View topic - How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?

it would be SO much easier for him if his coach didnt hate him, and constantly destroy his confidence

If Ruff would kill Roy and get him off his line, he'd produce again. Last year Vanek started producing when Roy got injured.

Vanek and Pominville are great together, put Ennis between them or put Hodgson between them, Dump Roy and see Vanek produce again.

It's sickening how Ruff is forcing Roy to play with two guys who don't work with him anymore, Pominville, yea, he's still been producing, but not nearly what he was before Roy was paired with him.

If you trade Vanek, you're getting a star player in return, Vanek can carry teams, he did it last year, there was a huge correlation between him scoring last year and us winning. 5 goals in 7 games in last year's playoffs is another big one. Even when he came back the year before when he was hacked out and was dominating in the playoffs.

Honestly, get Roy off this team and Vanek produces again, or at least separate them.

Skyline_BNR34 wrote:

Despite the 5 goals last year I believe he was a -7 in that series 0_0. Absolutely a liability 5 on 5

Don't have tons of time to evaluate this as of right now but I definitely would like him to be producing. We need our top six forwards to be kicking it into gear now.

I disagree with the comments that Roy is a major reason for Vanek's failures. Yeah, Roy needs to go, but come on now. Great players and leaders make the guys around them better. They don't become invisible if there's a bad seed in the room or on the ice. It's not like he's some green rookie or prospect. Vanek is 100% accountable for his productivity (or lackthereof) on the ice.

Markus wrote:

Skyline_BNR34 wrote:

Vanek had 5 PP goals. He might have sucked 5 on 5 but his PP stats definitely explained his +/-

the next guy to replace him is less valuable than Vanek at 70%, and the playoffs are at stake.

Author:	DieHardFan [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:	How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
I look at TV and see a skilled player, but I just don't see him as a core guy with whom to make a run to the cup. Intermittent brilliant play that is offset by maddeningly long streaks of non productivity - he's been barely noticeable the entire 2nd half of the year with only 5 goals and 10 points in his last 30 games. And he's disappeared for very long stretches in other years too. Yeah, I know it happens to all good players, streaks and all, but for a franchise player who's eating up 7.1 million in cap space, should the Sabres expect to be getting more for their money, and could a couple of young and hungry lower salary players be a better fit in the next 2 seasons, assuming they could work out a trade? I mean let's face it, this year, the team's surge back into the playoff picture during the past month and a half has had NOTHING to do with Vanek, which is a pretty sad statement for your team's supposed best player and maybe provides some insight as to what his true value is to the team - when your team is playing it's best hockey of the season with virtually no contribution from a franchise player. I think any offseason transactions to improve this team should include strong consideration of Vanek. Not because he's a bad player, but because perhaps they could get more value for the same cap hit.

Author:	BagBoy [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
I wish we had let Kevin Lowe take him. We would have gotten so many great picks, and I think we'd be better off right now if we had, maybe even monstrous. But, of course, we'll never really know.

Author:	YankeeInRaleigh [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
I wonder how much it was considered. It always felt a bit knee jerk, how they kept him after losing those who shall not be named.

Author:	Montalo [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
it would be SO much easier for him if his coach didnt hate him, and constantly destroy his confidence

Author:	Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
If Ruff would kill Roy and get him off his line, he'd produce again. Last year Vanek started producing when Roy got injured. Vanek and Pominville are great together, put Ennis between them or put Hodgson between them, Dump Roy and see Vanek produce again. It's sickening how Ruff is forcing Roy to play with two guys who don't work with him anymore, Pominville, yea, he's still been producing, but not nearly what he was before Roy was paired with him. If you trade Vanek, you're getting a star player in return, Vanek can carry teams, he did it last year, there was a huge correlation between him scoring last year and us winning. 5 goals in 7 games in last year's playoffs is another big one. Even when he came back the year before when he was hacked out and was dominating in the playoffs. Honestly, get Roy off this team and Vanek produces again, or at least separate them.

http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/

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Author:	Jammerz04 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:	How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
Montalo wrote: it would be SO much easier for him if his coach didnt hate him, and constantly destroy his confidence Exactly!!! If people want him to be a good player and the player game in and game out and that goes for many other players on this roster it's simple get rid of Ruff. There are countless players that Lindy's coached here that have vastly under improved due to the fact he puts his players in to groups. One group is players that can suck my dick for extra ice time and the other I just plain do not like u group... And Vanek's been a part of that 2nd group for awhile now

Author:	AudSabres [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
For all we know, Vanek may not be playing at 100%, which is driving me nuts because he is not contributing to the team right now. Honestly, if he's not able to play at the level where he can be the difference maker Ruff is looking for, he should let him know and get the rest/treatment needed. I know its crunch time and we need every guy possible to be in the lineup to try win these games, but if he is suffering from a shoulder issue, he should have taken himself out of the game and heal up. He's had success playing for Ruff in the past and this is totally speculation at this point, but by the looks of things, that relationship has gone south. What comes to mind was the video of Ruff handing out the C and the A's while the team was over in Europe. It seemed like Vanek was playing with the idea of being named Capitan of this team and when he didn't get it, I think it had a negative impact on him where he was playing more so for himself and his line mates as opposed to playing for Ruff. I like Sky's theory though, of getting rid of Roy and sending him packing. Hard to think it was coincidence that Vanek exploded last year when Roy went down with the injury. Sure, you lose a guy and the rest of the team needs to step up. I just don't buy it that Roy is helping this locker room.

Author:	DieHardFan [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
I disagree with the comments that Roy is a major reason for Vanek's failures. Yeah, Roy needs to go, but come on now. Great players and leaders make the guys around them better. They don't become invisible if there's a bad seed in the room or on the ice. It's not like he's some green rookie or prospect. Vanek is 100% accountable for his productivity (or lackthereof) on the ice.

Author:	Markus [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
Skyline_BNR34 wrote: If Ruff would kill Roy and get him off his line, he'd produce again. Last year Vanek started producing when Roy got injured. Vanek and Pominville are great together, put Ennis between them or put Hodgson between them, Dump Roy and see Vanek produce again. It's sickening how Ruff is forcing Roy to play with two guys who don't work with him anymore, Pominville, yea, he's still been producing, but not nearly what he was before Roy was paired with him. If you trade Vanek, you're getting a star player in return, Vanek can carry teams, he did it last year, there was a huge correlation between him scoring last year and us winning. 5 goals in 7 games in last year's playoffs is another big one. Even when he came back the year before when he was hacked out and was dominating in the playoffs. Honestly, get Roy off this team and Vanek produces again, or at least separate them. Despite the 5 goals last year I believe he was a -7 in that series 0_0. Absolutely a liability 5 on 5 Don't have tons of time to evaluate this as of right now but I definitely would like him to be producing. We need our top six forwards to be kicking it into gear now.

Author:	BlueandYellow [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
Markus wrote: Skyline_BNR34 wrote: If Ruff would kill Roy and get him off his line, he'd produce again. Last year Vanek started producing when Roy got injured. Vanek and Pominville are great together, put Ennis between them or put Hodgson between them, Dump Roy and see Vanek produce again. It's sickening how Ruff is forcing Roy to play with two guys who don't work with him anymore, Pominville, yea, he's still been producing, but not nearly what he was before Roy was paired with him. If you trade Vanek, you're getting a star player in return, Vanek can carry teams, he did it last year, there was a huge correlation between him scoring last year and us winning. 5 goals in 7 games in last year's playoffs is another big one. Even when he came back the year before when he was hacked out and was dominating in the playoffs. Honestly, get Roy off this team and Vanek produces again, or at least separate them. Despite the 5 goals last year I believe he was a -7 in that series 0_0. Absolutely a liability 5 on 5 Don't have tons of time to evaluate this as of right now but I definitely would like him to be producing. We need our top six forwards to be kicking it into gear now. Vanek had 5 PP goals. He might have sucked 5 on 5 but his PP stats definitely explained his +/-

Author:	Skyline_BNR34 [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
DieHardFan wrote: I disagree with the comments that Roy is a major reason for Vanek's failures. Yeah, Roy needs to go, but come on now. Great players and leaders make the guys around them better. They don't become invisible if there's a bad seed in the room or on the ice. It's not like he's some green rookie or prospect. Vanek is 100% accountable for his productivity (or lackthereof) on the ice. It's more of a mental thing I think between the two players. When Vanek is the guy who needs to carry the line he does, but when Roy is centering them, it seems Vanek loses all interest in being that guy and making the plays and bringing the puck in. I still see it sometimes with him, but not as much as before. We've all hated Roy for awhile and all think he is a cancer both on and off the ice to the team.

Author:	Jammerz04 [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
DieHardFan wrote: I disagree with the comments that Roy is a major reason for Vanek's failures. Yeah, Roy needs to go, but come on now. Great players and leaders make the guys around them better. They don't become invisible if there's a bad seed in the room or on the ice. It's not like he's some green rookie or prospect. Vanek is 100% accountable for his productivity (or lackthereof) on the ice. i don't know about that man. first off yes Vanek's profuction has dropped off but so has Pominville's. the only line that's been producing since we've been winning is Ennis Stafford plus whomever they are paired with. Vanek is the best pure goal scorer on this team and it'd be stupid to let him go. I can name a dozen players on this roster that deserve to be out more than Vanek. And the first person on that list would be Lindy "Don't Call Me Ruffles" Ruff. Guys system is horrible. He's turned so much talent into garbage. With the offensive players we have we should be one of the top teams in offense yet we linger in the bottom somewhere. If we had a coach that knows the proper system to put into place with these players then we'd be worrying about round one not if we even make the playoffs. Vanek's not the problem.

Author:	motzie12ak [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
On twitter, Kevin Sylvester answered someones question about Vanek saying that Lindy said he is still dealing with issues from that Boychuk hit.

Author:	Markus [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
BlueandYellow wrote: Markus wrote: Skyline_BNR34 wrote: If Ruff would kill Roy and get him off his line, he'd produce again. Last year Vanek started producing when Roy got injured. Vanek and Pominville are great together, put Ennis between them or put Hodgson between them, Dump Roy and see Vanek produce again. It's sickening how Ruff is forcing Roy to play with two guys who don't work with him anymore, Pominville, yea, he's still been producing, but not nearly what he was before Roy was paired with him. If you trade Vanek, you're getting a star player in return, Vanek can carry teams, he did it last year, there was a huge correlation between him scoring last year and us winning. 5 goals in 7 games in last year's playoffs is another big one. Even when he came back the year before when he was hacked out and was dominating in the playoffs. Honestly, get Roy off this team and Vanek produces again, or at least separate them. Despite the 5 goals last year I believe he was a -7 in that series 0_0. Absolutely a liability 5 on 5 Don't have tons of time to evaluate this as of right now but I definitely would like him to be producing. We need our top six forwards to be kicking it into gear now. Vanek had 5 PP goals. He might have sucked 5 on 5 but his PP stats definitely explained his +/- Yea that's what I meant. Can do special teams but was non existent and a liability at even strength.

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Author:	Skyline_BNR34 [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
So, Hodgson, Pominville, and Vanek together this game, and they all have a point so far.

Author:	PuckSniperPensel [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
I'm on the fence with this one. Vanek is a seriously skilled player and he can help a team big time during a cup run. He lead the team with 5 goals during the series against Philly last year, and the turning point of the series with the Bruins the year before was when Boychuck slashed Vanek in the knee and took him out of the series. That said, he doesn't really have the physical play/grit and tenacity on the forecheck that you like to see out of cup winners. But, if you surround him with the right players, he's going to be a huge asset. I liken Vanek to Hossa for Chicago. He wasn't their main guy. They still needed Kane, Sharp, and Toews among role players to win a cup. Therefore, I'd say that yes, I would miss Thomas Vanek. I think this team will need him, not so much for leadership, but for scoring depth, when they make a playoff run.

Author:	Displaced Fan [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
i think we need to dump Ruff.....yes I know.........and get a coach in there that knows how to coach without screaming every sentence. Vanek would be a much better player if he had a coach that didn't treat everyone except a few special favorites like shit.

Author:	daz28 [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
We all know what kind of player Vanek can be. His consistency is never effort related, so even suggesting it is an issue is insinuating that it is actually effort related, but all sane fans know he's harder on himself than 99% of people are. I'd miss him for sure, but I'll always hate his contract(and KL too). We can only hope he gives us a break on the next deal, and it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Author:	Sabresfansince1980 [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
I hate that this f-ing topic keeps coming up. Vanek is a player that ANY team would want...ANY TEAM! He's not a Crosby, but no team wins a Cup with only Crosby. Vanek has been hurt for a few months now but he won't admit that it's hurting his play. He's the only f-ing forward that gets in the crease and pays the price to cause traffic and get dirty goals. I mean HOLY CHRIST is that not what we all want on this team?!?! Let's not pretend that Vanek's +/- had something to do with losing to Philly either. The weak and in-experienced d-corps wilted under the forecheck. Hecht was hurt, Pominville got hurt, Roy was hurt. Injuries do matter regardless of what players say, and regardless of how some fans say "injuries are no excuse". Vanek is trying to play because the next guy to replace him is less valuable than Vanek at 70%, and the playoffs are at stake. Does every time Vanek goes through a mini-slump require another "Vanek isn't worth his cap hit" topic? I'll tell you right now that Vanek will NEVER produce to his cap hit...NEVER. People need to just get over his cap hit, because that entire fiasco was a series of blunders that was totally out of his control. Instead of worrying about the damn cap hit, just worry about whether he's giving 100% (almost always) and if he's producing like a top line wing (almost always). What more do people want from ONE player?

Author:	YankeeInRaleigh [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How much would you miss Thomas Vanek?
Sabresfansince1980 wrote: the next guy to replace him is less valuable than Vanek at 70%, and the playoffs are at stake. I really disagree with this thinking. An injured vanek is a slow, hesitant vanek. Who looks to pass instead of shoot, and isnt mobile enough to either deke with the puck, or quickly get to a good position on the ice. In too many games recently he's been invisible at best, hemmed in our D zone at worst. I'd prefer most forwards at full health over an injured vanek. Besides perhaps: boyes, Mccormick, hodgson.