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HOCKEY IS BACK!

The Vanek hate continues.

He'll make it to 175 this season. I'll make that a Stuuuuuuuuuu shoe-in of the season.

Nice work Thomas.

edit: this was supposed to come after the first post mentioning #175.

it should have come weeks ago. If he makes 175 this season, i'll be shocked

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175 donuts, hmm not a lot.

175 boxes full of donuts , yea sounds possible

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HOCKEY IS BACK!

What does this topic refer to?

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When I was a boy I spoke as a boy, I understood as a boy, and I thought as a boy; when I became a man I took that boy outside and shot him.

I think it refers to Vanek scoring his 150th career NHL goal last night? Lemme check the NHL.com player page for him.

EDIT: Yep, that's exactly what it refers to.

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mechaphil

ill be happy when he reaches the 200 mark this season, but it aint happening

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PSA: I am an overly sarcastic person. If you take me at my word, then i will most likely anger and offend you.

Interesting how much venom Vanek elicits from the Sabres faithful. I personally think he's a mixed bag of incredible eye-hand coordination and slack. If he played with Ovechkin intensity he'd be a 50-60 goal scorer every year, but because he's got Vanekitis we're probably always going to moan about his sleepy 40-45 goals, and then bewail the loss of them when he's gone.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

It actually all started with some "offer sheet" thingy. As I recall, EVERYONE had a Vanek hard-on before that.

Well, I've got news for the masses...fuck what he makes, and just look at the fact that he's the only true goal scorer we got. Yeah he could be better, yeah he's sometimes uninspired and soft, but 40+ goals/yr is real fucking tough to come by.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

In a perfect world...Vanek.

In the here-and-now? I'd finagle Vanek into any of a dozen trade deals.

Open up cap for Shanahan? Pick up Scotty Niedermayer? Trade for Biron and Dougie Weight? Daymond Lankow?

He's proving to be too static an asset. His goal-scoring is far from guaranteed. He's streaky and seems moody and Lindy can't seem to shit with him, and Lindy can't seem to do shit without him.

Dump him while he has some attractiveness/desirability. Let another team take the risk and daydream about his possible "production". We all know he ain't Ovie. Or Nash. Or Iggy.

This tree is not bearing fruit readily. Let's not fall in love with another mass of potential. Admit an error in judgment and let's be done with it

My two.

I'm with ya all the way on this one. I've never regretted having a goal-scoring forward. He's one guy of 12, and does his job. If anyone wants to argue he shouldn't win the Selke then fine, but I don't want to hear them bitch when I ask why the Selke winner didn't lead the league in goals. Players have ROLES, and Thomas fills his. End of story.

Vanek? For the Selke?

...sorry. Not in the past couple of seasons. He's so streaky on his backcheck.

Head-to-head? Seriously? I'd take Peca (old fuck that he is) over Vanek; for face-offs, grit, hustle, backchecking and general defensive play.

And Peca's worth a mil - I can then go out and get two twenty-goal scorers, and still have enough money left to eat filet and drink single-malt scotch, every day for a decade. Role filled. Robustly.

He ain't Selke and he ain't Byng. He just doesn't seem to get it. And I don't know why.

Maybe it's Lindy.

I'm sorry, I was just saying that goal-scoring forwards don't have to be great defensively if their coach plans his lines well. Everyone's gripe with V(since the K. Lowe sit) is his defense. Defensive players win their trophy's, and offensive player's theirs as well, was all I was saying.

Now, as far as trading Vanek, I would maybe do so, but would require something serious. Very serious.

Also, I think his defense is good at worst, simply based on his tenaciousness. No where near the top of the league though. I suppose if he were trained as a defensive specialist(never happen), then he may be great defensively(like King Jochen j/k lol).

Well...Vanek for a goody-bag of assets would be the thing.

A bunch of true role players from a team that believes they need a "pure goal-scorer".

Nashville? Phoenix? LA? Someone with oodles of cap, who believe they need a "splash" factor. And is willing to surrender solid, but unspectacular players.

We do really well with those kinds of players, under Lindy's system. It's all about the hustle; the "above and beyond".

We've all loved that element of the Sabres - Remember '05-'06? We're trying to be that team and better, because they showed something.

And it was based on fundamentals and hard play. And, to be honest, I've always embraced that style of Hockey: Iggy over Gomez. Nash over Kovalchuk.

Dumont over Connolly. But, that's just me. I'm not trying to be argumentative.

I simply seek a balanced, well-rounded, "complete" set of players. That's my paradigm, in Hockey.

60 minutes. Gotta fight. Gotta dig. Play the man. Gotta sacrifice to set up the goal. Play smart. Never hold back. Make the other team pay. Go for broke.

Peca over Vanek? No, no, no... not even close. Come on...let's be serious, man. Vanek is a goal scorer, and Peca is, well, old and shot. In his day, he was a very scrappy two way player, an effort and energy guy who could get you 20 goals. Totally different style player from Vanek.

Now, if you want to make the case for Peca over Hecht I'm all ears!

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

Is he?

My argument was based on Vanek's "Selke" potential - He is, by no means, a potent backchecker.

Not because he hasn't the size, or the talent, or the skill...He gets distracted. He plays a sloppy game. He doesn't adhere to fundamentals. He's NOT (definitely not. Can I say not, again?) disciplined.

Vanek is a raw talent, looking for a coaching system that can allow him to flourish. Can we at least agree that it ain't here?

Peca weighs in at 1/7th Vanek's salary and does so many things, so much better. And - AND - He shows a spark and leadership that TV may never have...

With the remaining cap, the Sabres can compensate for the loss in goal-scoring, by acquiring those who score a bit less, for much cheaper. And utilize a cumulative bench-depth to replace "the missing goals".

That's all. One player worth $7 mil stalls, or shits the bed, you're SOL...two or three players don't usually fall flat/get injured/crap the bed, all at the same time.

It's less likely. You "de-centralize" the bulk of your goal-scoring, and become less reliant upon a "key" player.

Simple.

I disagree completely that a pure goal scorer, even a one dimensional goal scorer, is not a critical component and necessary asset. To take away Vanek means having to replace at least 40 goals, and possibly as many as 50 if he can play a full season, plus a deadly power play threat that is not easy to find. He's not a hitter, he's not a great defensive player, but he fills a role that we need to have if we expect to win it all.

Peca is pretty shot, and I'm not sure I would even take him for free at this stage of his career. Sorry, but I just don't agree with your point. I do think he's making too much money, but I'll swallow that for 44 goals and a solid +/-.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

Well. Let's agree to disagree.

Because, all arguments aside, I'm one who believes that one could start a new franchise with all the available UFA's and harness their cohesion and understanding of Hockey fundamentals and discipline, and blow an All-Star team out of the water, by playing a smarter, better disciplined, more physical, more fundamental, less individual style of Hockey.

But, then again, that's just my take on the "team" component of the game, and its' weight and relevence in the overall Hockey concepts of scoring, defending and winning games.

Agree to disagree? Say what? Maturity will get you nowhere. I demand everyone think exactly as I do at all times.

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Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way. I can't wait to look in the mirror, 'cause I get better looking each day. To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man. Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can.