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Who Would You Move?
Team A 50%  50%  [ 3 ]
Team B 17%  17%  [ 1 ]
Team C 33%  33%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 6
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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:26 pm 
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Islanders, Atlanta, Phoenix, and Columbus.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:35 pm 
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My personal feeling is that if a given team isn't pulling in fans, be it on TV or in the building itself, then relocation should at least enter the conversation.

Hard to attempt to figure out market value since apparel sales are difficult to find and that goes a long way. Plus you don't to punish cult fanbases with small but loyal followings, or the ups and downs of performance, or ownership issues, but from 12-20 years of failing to fill the building...that's kind of hard to ignore.

Market Size (Largest to Smallest)
Team D - 1st
Team B - 3rd
Team C - 11th
Team A - 25th

Median Household Income (highest to lowest)
Team A - 12th
Team B - 18th
Team D - 19th
Team C - 22nd

Poverty Rate (lowest to highest)
Team A - 3rd
Team B - 20th
Team D - 21st
Team C - 26th

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:42 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Team A:
Has sold the smallest percentage of all available seats since 89-90. (Includes Hartford, Winnipeg, and Quebec).
Ranks 20th in percentage of seats sold since the lockout.
Ranks 25th in percentage of seats sold since 00-01.
Best attendance year? 18th out of 30 teams.
Worst? 26th out of 26 teams, 27th out of 27 teams.
Postseason success - moderate over their tenure.

Team B:
Has sold the 5th smallest percentage of all available seats since 89-90.
Ranks dead last (30th) in percentage of seats sold since the lockout.
Ranks 27th in percentage of seats sold since 00-01.
Best attendance year? 14th out of 26 teams.
Worst? 28th out of 30 teams (twice).
Postseason success - high over their tenure.

Team C:
Has sold the 6th smallest percentage of all available seats since 89-90.
Ranks 27th in percentage of seats sold since the lockout.
Ranks 29th in percentage of seats sold since 00-01.
Best Attendance year? 13th out of 28 teams.
Worst? 30th out of 30 teams.
Postseason success - nonexistent.

Team D:
Has sold the 3rd smallest percentage of all available seats since 89-90.
Ranks 28th in percentage of seats sold since the lockout.
Ranks 26th in percentage of seats sold since 00-01.
Best Attendance Year? 15th out of 30 teams.
Worst? 30th out of 30 teams.
Postseason success - pretty much nil aside from a few hopeful years. (in the 89-90 to 09-10 seasons).



I'll come clean, I suppose I have to eventually.

The team that has sold the smallest percentage of it's seats (73.82%) is the Carolina Hurricanes.
Disclaimer: The Hurricanes played their first two seasons in the NHL at the Greensboro Coliseum. While Greensboro's resident is a nice guy, he can't fill 21,000 seats by himself.

Team B is the New Jersey Devils. Oh so good, and yet no one cares. One has to wonder if that franchise didn't have Marty Brodeur and the accompanying Stanley Cups, would it even be there anymore?

Team C is the Atlanta Thrashers. They did alright when they came into the league, ranking 13th in attendance that year, and have been 22nd or worse since then, presumably because the uniforms are ugly and the team gives its fans nothing to cheer about.

Team D is the New York Islanders.
Disclaimer: As Jay has said, their arena is a dump, and not in the most ideal locales. Plus, much like the Thrashers, they haven't given their fans much to cheer about, at least not since the mid eighties.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:52 pm 
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What list did you use for the income, with metropolitan ares, the list is different, except with The Hurricanes, and the Islanders, unless you did cities only, which you must have done.

And the thing with Greensboro, is no one wanted to buy the seats because they knew the team was going to move to Raleigh in two years anyways.

Honestly, would you buy season tickets to a team that you knew was just going to move 1.5 hours down the highway in two years?

You have to remember, even with the team in Greensboro they would have done perfectly fine.

"Both the original Generals and Monarchs are considered to this day as one of the first southern hockey franchises to build a loyal fan base and draw consistent attendance at their games."

Their ECHL teams did fine also.

"Unfortunately, the ESA would not be complete for two more years, and the only other hockey building in the Triangle was Dorton Arena, a 5,100-seat, 45-year-old building which was totally unsuitable for NHL hockey. The Hurricanes were thus forced to play home games in Greensboro, ninety minutes away from Raleigh, for their first two seasons after the move. This choice was disastrous for the franchise's attendance and reputation. With a capacity of over 21,000 people for hockey, the Greensboro Coliseum became the highest-capacity arena in the NHL, but Triangle-area fans proved unwilling to make the drive down I-40 to Greensboro, and fans from the Piedmont Triad mostly refused to support a lame-duck team that had displaced the longtime Greensboro/Carolina Monarchs minor-league franchise. Furthermore, only 29 out of 82 games were televised, and radio play-by-play coverage on WPTF was often pre-empted by North Carolina State Wolfpack basketball (for whose broadcasts WPTF was the flagship station), leaving these games totally unavailable to those who did not have a ticket. With attendance routinely well below the league average, Sports Illustrated ran a story titled "Natural Disaster,"[1] and ESPN anchors mocked the "Green Acres" of empty seats; in a 2006 interview, Karmanos admitted that "as it turns out, [Greensboro] was probably a mistake."

Those two years really should be thrown out of it, because it was not a very good choice to go to Greensboro for two years.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:06 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
What list did you use for the income, with metropolitan ares, the list is different, except with The Hurricanes, and the Islanders, unless you did cities only, which you must have done.

And the thing with Greensboro, is no one wanted to buy the seats because they knew the team was going to move to Raleigh in two years anyways.

Honestly, would you buy season tickets to a team that you knew was just going to move 1.5 hours down the highway in two years?

You have to remember, even with the team in Greensboro they would have done perfectly fine.

"Both the original Generals and Monarchs are considered to this day as one of the first southern hockey franchises to build a loyal fan base and draw consistent attendance at their games."

Their ECHL teams did fine also.

"Unfortunately, the ESA would not be complete for two more years, and the only other hockey building in the Triangle was Dorton Arena, a 5,100-seat, 45-year-old building which was totally unsuitable for NHL hockey. The Hurricanes were thus forced to play home games in Greensboro, ninety minutes away from Raleigh, for their first two seasons after the move. This choice was disastrous for the franchise's attendance and reputation. With a capacity of over 21,000 people for hockey, the Greensboro Coliseum became the highest-capacity arena in the NHL, but Triangle-area fans proved unwilling to make the drive down I-40 to Greensboro, and fans from the Piedmont Triad mostly refused to support a lame-duck team that had displaced the longtime Greensboro/Carolina Monarchs minor-league franchise. Furthermore, only 29 out of 82 games were televised, and radio play-by-play coverage on WPTF was often pre-empted by North Carolina State Wolfpack basketball (for whose broadcasts WPTF was the flagship station), leaving these games totally unavailable to those who did not have a ticket. With attendance routinely well below the league average, Sports Illustrated ran a story titled "Natural Disaster,"[1] and ESPN anchors mocked the "Green Acres" of empty seats; in a 2006 interview, Karmanos admitted that "as it turns out, [Greensboro] was probably a mistake."

Those two years really should be thrown out of it, because it was not a very good choice to go to Greensboro for two years.


Right, which is why I mentioned it as a "to be fair" clause.

I don't think you can say that the team would have done fine in Greensboro and then go to talk about what a mistake it was (via the wiki article) and how those years should be thrown out.

Either way, even playing at 35,000 seat Tropicana field for two years, and filling to half capacity, the Lightning did alright.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:11 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
What list did you use for the income, with metropolitan ares, the list is different, except with The Hurricanes, and the Islanders, unless you did cities only, which you must have done.

And the thing with Greensboro, is no one wanted to buy the seats because they knew the team was going to move to Raleigh in two years anyways.

Honestly, would you buy season tickets to a team that you knew was just going to move 1.5 hours down the highway in two years?

You have to remember, even with the team in Greensboro they would have done perfectly fine.

"Both the original Generals and Monarchs are considered to this day as one of the first southern hockey franchises to build a loyal fan base and draw consistent attendance at their games."

Their ECHL teams did fine also.

"Unfortunately, the ESA would not be complete for two more years, and the only other hockey building in the Triangle was Dorton Arena, a 5,100-seat, 45-year-old building which was totally unsuitable for NHL hockey. The Hurricanes were thus forced to play home games in Greensboro, ninety minutes away from Raleigh, for their first two seasons after the move. This choice was disastrous for the franchise's attendance and reputation. With a capacity of over 21,000 people for hockey, the Greensboro Coliseum became the highest-capacity arena in the NHL, but Triangle-area fans proved unwilling to make the drive down I-40 to Greensboro, and fans from the Piedmont Triad mostly refused to support a lame-duck team that had displaced the longtime Greensboro/Carolina Monarchs minor-league franchise. Furthermore, only 29 out of 82 games were televised, and radio play-by-play coverage on WPTF was often pre-empted by North Carolina State Wolfpack basketball (for whose broadcasts WPTF was the flagship station), leaving these games totally unavailable to those who did not have a ticket. With attendance routinely well below the league average, Sports Illustrated ran a story titled "Natural Disaster,"[1] and ESPN anchors mocked the "Green Acres" of empty seats; in a 2006 interview, Karmanos admitted that "as it turns out, [Greensboro] was probably a mistake."

Those two years really should be thrown out of it, because it was not a very good choice to go to Greensboro for two years.


Right, which is why I mentioned it as a "to be fair" clause.

I don't think you can say that the team would have done fine in Greensboro and then go to talk about what a mistake it was (via the wiki article) and how those years should be thrown out.

Either way, even playing at 35,000 seat Tropicana field for two years, and filling to half capacity, the Lightning did alright.

You misinterpreted it, if they had stayed in Greensboro and not been moved to Raleigh, they would have done fine and probably still fine today. That's what I meant, had the team only ever played there.

The biggest thing to me is, hockey is close to me, and I don't want it taken away. No matter how many ice rinks are in my area because of them, I still love seeing other teams, AKA the Sabres come to town so I can watch them play. And I don't want it taken away.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
What list did you use for the income, with metropolitan ares, the list is different, except with The Hurricanes, and the Islanders, unless you did cities only, which you must have done.

And the thing with Greensboro, is no one wanted to buy the seats because they knew the team was going to move to Raleigh in two years anyways.

Honestly, would you buy season tickets to a team that you knew was just going to move 1.5 hours down the highway in two years?

You have to remember, even with the team in Greensboro they would have done perfectly fine.

"Both the original Generals and Monarchs are considered to this day as one of the first southern hockey franchises to build a loyal fan base and draw consistent attendance at their games."

Their ECHL teams did fine also.

"Unfortunately, the ESA would not be complete for two more years, and the only other hockey building in the Triangle was Dorton Arena, a 5,100-seat, 45-year-old building which was totally unsuitable for NHL hockey. The Hurricanes were thus forced to play home games in Greensboro, ninety minutes away from Raleigh, for their first two seasons after the move. This choice was disastrous for the franchise's attendance and reputation. With a capacity of over 21,000 people for hockey, the Greensboro Coliseum became the highest-capacity arena in the NHL, but Triangle-area fans proved unwilling to make the drive down I-40 to Greensboro, and fans from the Piedmont Triad mostly refused to support a lame-duck team that had displaced the longtime Greensboro/Carolina Monarchs minor-league franchise. Furthermore, only 29 out of 82 games were televised, and radio play-by-play coverage on WPTF was often pre-empted by North Carolina State Wolfpack basketball (for whose broadcasts WPTF was the flagship station), leaving these games totally unavailable to those who did not have a ticket. With attendance routinely well below the league average, Sports Illustrated ran a story titled "Natural Disaster,"[1] and ESPN anchors mocked the "Green Acres" of empty seats; in a 2006 interview, Karmanos admitted that "as it turns out, [Greensboro] was probably a mistake."

Those two years really should be thrown out of it, because it was not a very good choice to go to Greensboro for two years.


Right, which is why I mentioned it as a "to be fair" clause.

I don't think you can say that the team would have done fine in Greensboro and then go to talk about what a mistake it was (via the wiki article) and how those years should be thrown out.

Either way, even playing at 35,000 seat Tropicana field for two years, and filling to half capacity, the Lightning did alright.

You misinterpreted it, if they had stayed in Greensboro and not been moved to Raleigh, they would have done fine and probably still fine today. That's what I meant, had the team only ever played there.

The biggest thing to me is, hockey is close to me, and I don't want it taken away. No matter how many ice rinks are in my area because of them, I still love seeing other teams, AKA the Sabres come to town so I can watch them play. And I don't want it taken away.


I know. Looking at the numbers, I stand by what I blogged the other day. The first team to move, ignoring all the ownership issues and whatnot, should be New Jersey.

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X-pensfan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:52 pm 
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New Jersey...New York islanders....and......Atlanta.

I'm not even trying. :shifty:

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