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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:47 am 
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Godzilla1960 wrote:
ironyisadeadscene wrote:
brodeur is vastly overrated

Ironyisdeadscene, how would it be possible to overrate Brodeur?

Most regular season wins (557)
Most shutouts (record achieved during 2009–10 season)
Most shutouts, regular season & playoffs combined (118)
Most overtime wins (45)
Most consecutive 30-win seasons (12)
Most consecutive 35-win seasons (11)
Most 40-win seasons (7)
Most games played by an NHL goaltender (record achieved during 2009–10 season)
Most total minutes played by an NHL goaltender (record achieved during 2009–10 season)
Only NHL goalie to score a game-winning goal
Most wins in a single season (48, in 2006–07)
Most minutes played in a single season (4697, in 2006–07)
Most shutouts in a playoff (7, in 2002–03)
Most shutouts in playoffs, career: (23, tied with Patrick Roy)
Most shutouts in a Stanley Cup final (3, in 2002–03; tied with Toronto Maple Leafs' Frank McCool)
2nd place: 98 Wins
3rd goaltender to win the Stanley Cup with a Game-7 shutout in 2002–03.
1st goaltender in history to have 3 shutouts in two different playoff series. (1995 against Boston in the Conference Quarterfinals, 2003 against Anaheim in the Stanley Cup final.)
Calder Memorial Trophy — 1994
NHL 1st All-Star Team — 2003, 2004, 2007
NHL 2nd All-Star Team — 1997, 1998, 2006, 2008
NHL All-Rookie Team — 1994
NHL All-Star Game — 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008
Olympic gold medal — 2002
Primus World'Stars Challenge Bowl — 2004
QMJHL 2nd All-Star Team — 1992
QMJHL All-Rookie Team — 1990
Stanley Cup — 1995, 2000, 2003
Vezina Trophy — 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008
William M. Jennings Trophy — 1997 (with Mike Dunham), 1998, 2003 (tied Roman Čechmánek & Robert Esche), 2004
World Cup of Hockey championship — 2004


I do agree with your statement that Brodeur is not one of the best goalies of all time. I think he is THE best goalie of all time.


Do you also think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time? Because Favre has a similar pile of stats.

I agree with Irony. Not one of the best goalies of all time.

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Godzilla1960
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:53 am 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Do you also think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time? Because Favre has a similar pile of stats.

I agree with Irony. Not one of the best goalies of all time.

I think Brodeur's achievements exceed Farve's, but I do think Brett Farve is one of the best quarterbacks of all time. I think that Payton Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, and (although it kills me to say it) Dan Marino are better (and probably a couple more, if I thought about it), but I would still put Farve on the list of the top quarterbacks in NFL history.

Brodeur is a product of a system, but not just a product of the system. If that were the case then every team in the league could create their own Brodeurs simply by playing NJ's trap. Other teams have tried, but I don't see a league populated with Marty Brodeurs.

Stats aren't the only thing, but they certainly aren't nothing. I don't know how anyone can say that Brodeur doesn't deserve to be mentioned with people like Roy, Hasek, Dryden, and Sawchuk.

So far I haven't seen a convincing argument that he is overrated, just people saying it.

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Los9090
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:44 am 
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Godzilla1960 wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Do you also think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time? Because Favre has a similar pile of stats.

I agree with Irony. Not one of the best goalies of all time.

I think Brodeur's achievements exceed Farve's, but I do think Brett Farve is one of the best quarterbacks of all time. I think that Payton Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, and (although it kills me to say it) Dan Marino are better (and probably a couple more, if I thought about it), but I would still put Farve on the list of the top quarterbacks in NFL history.

Brodeur is a product of a system, but not just a product of the system. If that were the case then every team in the league could create their own Brodeurs simply by playing NJ's trap. Other teams have tried, but I don't see a league populated with Marty Brodeurs.

Stats aren't the only thing, but they certainly aren't nothing. I don't know how anyone can say that Brodeur doesn't deserve to be mentioned with people like Roy, Hasek, Dryden, and Sawchuk.

So far I haven't seen a convincing argument that he is overrated, just people saying it.

To say he's the best of all time is a HUGE stretch. He is simply one of the best. And a great goalie playing in the trap system is obviously going to have great numbers. Especially with the teams that were/are in front of Broduer during his tenure.

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Los9090
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:46 am 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Adams- Lindy Ruff-Buffalo Sabres: Gone from 10th the past two years to having one great defense and 2nd place in the East, Ruff makes the best come out of some players.


I don't know...Lindy should get nominated, but just think of the tall task at hand that was forced on Tippett. Good for him for keeping that team on task and producing at a high level.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Godzilla1960 wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Do you also think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time? Because Favre has a similar pile of stats.

I agree with Irony. Not one of the best goalies of all time.

I think Brodeur's achievements exceed Farve's, but I do think Brett Farve is one of the best quarterbacks of all time. I think that Payton Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, and (although it kills me to say it) Dan Marino are better (and probably a couple more, if I thought about it), but I would still put Farve on the list of the top quarterbacks in NFL history.

Brodeur is a product of a system, but not just a product of the system. If that were the case then every team in the league could create their own Brodeurs simply by playing NJ's trap. Other teams have tried, but I don't see a league populated with Marty Brodeurs.

Stats aren't the only thing, but they certainly aren't nothing. I don't know how anyone can say that Brodeur doesn't deserve to be mentioned with people like Roy, Hasek, Dryden, and Sawchuk.

So far I haven't seen a convincing argument that he is overrated, just people saying it.


Nicklas Backstrom, G and Josh Harding beg to differ.

Perhaps Brodeur does deserve to be mentioned with those guys, but after every single one of them.

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Montalo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:40 pm 
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just throwing this out there, look at his Olympic stats

2002
4-0-1, 9 GA, 1.80 GAA,
2006
2-2-0, 8 GA, 2.01 GAA

http://devils.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8455710

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hockeyplaya00
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:28 pm 
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While I do not think that Brodeur is the best goaltender of all time, some of you are underrating him by a lot by saying he is not even considered one the best. I don't care what system you play under, putting up those kinds of numbers cant be done without any talent. People say that it is New Jersey's trap system that gets him his wins but he is the reason why the system has worked so well, it does compliment him but it does not give him all the records.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Los9090 wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Adams- Lindy Ruff-Buffalo Sabres: Gone from 10th the past two years to having one great defense and 2nd place in the East, Ruff makes the best come out of some players.


I don't know...Lindy should get nominated, but just think of the tall task at hand that was forced on Tippett. Good for him for keeping that team on task and producing at a high level.

Yea you're probably more right, I didn't know Tippett was coach for Phoenix.

Lindy will get nominated for sure for his job this year, but I guess I would change it to Tippett then.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Los9090
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Los9090 wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
Adams- Lindy Ruff-Buffalo Sabres: Gone from 10th the past two years to having one great defense and 2nd place in the East, Ruff makes the best come out of some players.


I don't know...Lindy should get nominated, but just think of the tall task at hand that was forced on Tippett. Good for him for keeping that team on task and producing at a high level.

Yea you're probably more right, I didn't know Tippett was coach for Phoenix.

Lindy will get nominated for sure for his job this year, but I guess I would change it to Tippett then.

I was struggling with my Calder pick...didn't want to be too homerish on Myers. But I can actually stomach Islander games now.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:00 am 
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I wasn't trying to homer on Myers, but you can hear it in every announcers voices or whenever they comment on the guy.

They all say the same thing basically, I can't believe how good he is and he is only 19 years old.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:08 am 
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I like Tavares, but he just isn't gonna hold up as the season goes on. For fuck's sake, Moulson is scoring more consistently, but barely.

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Los9090
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:10 am 
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Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
I wasn't trying to homer on Myers, but you can hear it in every announcers voices or whenever they comment on the guy.

They all say the same thing basically, I can't believe how good he is and he is only 19 years old.

It says something too when Darcy didn't send him back to Junior.

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:17 am 
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Los9090 wrote:
Skyline_BNR34 wrote:
I wasn't trying to homer on Myers, but you can hear it in every announcers voices or whenever they comment on the guy.

They all say the same thing basically, I can't believe how good he is and he is only 19 years old.

It says something too when Darcy didn't send him back to Junior.

It says A LOT when Scotty Bowman watches him and is awe-struck. Scotty fuckin' Bowman.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:33 am 
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When a 19 year old defensemen can take the league by storm and get noticed this quickly by EVERYONE, he's good.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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daz28
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 am 
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Back to the off topic.

The NJ Devil trap system has more goals than Buffalo's system. How can it be explained that it's "ultra-defensive minded", yet still scores more goals than ours?? It's like admitting it's a superior system to ours. By the same token, no one is willing to take anything away from Miller for being in a defensive system now are they??

My personal opinion is Brodeur and Miller are the best right now. Anyone can argue about how over-rated anyone is, but right now, this is the fact(statistically speaking). Hate all ya want or bitch and moan about systems, but that's how it is.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:14 am 
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The Devils have gone from a pure trap team to at least a better offensive team, especially last year when they needed to score goals.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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patkane88
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:29 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
I like Tavares, but he just isn't gonna hold up as the season goes on. For fuck's sake, Moulson is scoring more consistently, but barely.


I agree with your point on JT. Tavares played here in a London and during the last half of the OHL season he was a very good player but when playoffs came he a no show. He is also a terrible skater.

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End The Curse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Hart: Ovechkin - Simply the best player in the NHL.

Norris: Myers - Rookie or not, he's the best in game.

Vezina: Ryan Miller - No brainer.

Calder: Tyler Myers - see Norris

Adams: Lindy Ruff - Almost nobody saw the Sabres stunning resurgence coming.

Selke: Zach Parise - +22, dominant defensively and very productive offensively.

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patkane88
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:22 pm 
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End The Curse wrote:
Hart: Ovechkin - Simply the best player in the NHL.

Norris: Myers - Rookie or not, he's the best in game.

Vezina: Ryan Miller - No brainer.

Calder: Tyler Myers - see Norris

Adams: Lindy Ruff - Almost nobody saw the Sabres stunning resurgence coming.

Selke: Zach Parise - +22, dominant defensively and very productive offensively.


And no one really talks about him, great choice ETC

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Hammygoodness
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Welcome back, ETC! As to the Hart, people forget that it's the most valuable player, not the best. Still, Ovie is a good choice there.

Ham

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