My Idea:
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| The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3826 |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
My Idea:
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| Author: | Van_Da_Man [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Not a big fan of teams in Idaho and Utah, but then again I don't know about their population of hockey loving fans. Green Bay Locomotives would be cool, but the Name might end up being changed to something more threatening. |
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| Author: | ironyisadeadscene [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
ok, so im currently in south florida, and while the heat are all the rage, theres alot more interest in the panthers then youd believe. side note: at the florida marlins game yesterday, the fans chanted "ole! ole! ole ole ole!" most of the games. its not just a montreal/soccer thing apparently. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
ironyisadeadscene wrote: ok, so im currently in south florida, and while the heat are all the rage, theres alot more interest in the panthers then youd believe. side note: at the florida marlins game yesterday, the fans chanted "ole! ole! ole ole ole!" most of the games. its not just a montreal/soccer thing apparently. And now you see why some of the teams in the South shouldn't move because the market will grow bigger in about 10-15 years. I say you need to look further than just attendance records and monetary value, if the area embraces hockey and has ice rinks all around, a lot of people will play and keep up with the team, even if they don't have the money to go to a game, especially in this economy right now. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
I still think having two hockey teams in Florida is retarded. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
CriminallyVu1gar wrote: I still think having two hockey teams in Florida is retarded. I don't disagree with that at all, but Atlanta is a better case to be moved then a Florida team right now, even Nashville. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Florida is in financial trouble. It shows in their $8 a seat ST. They have to come up with bullshit gimmicks to try and bring people in because if they fall below the revenue sharing-compliant STH number, they lose the shared money. And then they can't operate. Atlanta is in even worse shape, yes. But it doesn't take much thought to see that Florida is in a heap of shit. Tampa is the only sustainable team in Florida, and that's only because they happened to win a Cup. If they didn't, Tampa wouldn't even exist any more;at least, not as the Bolts. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix, New Jersey, NYI, and Carolina are all pretty terrible attendance wise. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
I still don't see nearly 90% in a non hockey market terrible attendance wide, compared to hockey markets yes, but a non hockey market? |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Skyline_BNR34 wrote: I still don't see nearly 90% in a non hockey market terrible attendance wide, compared to hockey markets yes, but a non hockey market? Uh the panthers are at 82.04% this decade and even worse, 81.11% since the lockout. They also place dead last in TV ratings among teams that release them (fuck you nashville and Carolina) with a .15 rating. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
CriminallyVu1gar wrote: Skyline_BNR34 wrote: I still don't see nearly 90% in a non hockey market terrible attendance wide, compared to hockey markets yes, but a non hockey market? Uh the panthers are at 82.04% this decade and even worse, 81.11% since the lockout. They also place dead last in TV ratings among teams that release them (fuck you nashville and Carolina) with a .15 rating. I was talking about Carolina, weren't they like 88% last year, which isn't bad for a non hockey market. Florida yes is terrible, but their product on the ice has been less than desirable too. They haven't had a recent success of going to the playoffs either. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Skyline_BNR34 wrote: CriminallyVu1gar wrote: Skyline_BNR34 wrote: I still don't see nearly 90% in a non hockey market terrible attendance wide, compared to hockey markets yes, but a non hockey market? Uh the panthers are at 82.04% this decade and even worse, 81.11% since the lockout. They also place dead last in TV ratings among teams that release them (fuck you nashville and Carolina) with a .15 rating. I was talking about Carolina, weren't they like 88% last year, which isn't bad for a non hockey market. Florida yes is terrible, but their product on the ice has been less than desirable too. They've never went to the playoffs in their history. No they weren't. http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/homePct |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Oh my bad, that was the previous year the Canes were at 88% when they did their run to the ECFs. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
One way or another, there are too many southern teams. San Jose is a Great Market Dallas is an okay market. LA, St. Louis, and Tampa are just under mediocre. Anaheim, Nashville, and Carolina are bad. Florida, Phoenix, and Atlanta are terrible. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Ummm The attendance for Carolina has been 92.8 in 06-07, 88.8 in 07-08, 88.5 in 08-09, and 81.4 last year. Even with the bad year last year, they are averaging 87.875% in attendance since the lockout, please explain how that is terrible in a SOUTHERN MARKET? I know you hate the Hurricanes, but you're dead wrong about the market based purely on those facts present in attendance, and they are making a profit so I don't see how making a profit is a bad market or terrible? Ummm you're dead wrong in saying it's bad or downright terrible. They are an ok market. Attendance is also always relative of performance on the ice too, unless you're Toronto. You know LA has a 93.6% attendance last year? They all follow the same format, you win games, your attendance is good. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Skyline_BNR34 wrote: Ummm The attendance for Carolina has been 92.8 in 06-07, 88.8 in 07-08, 88.5 in 08-09, and 81.4 last year. Even with the bad year last year, they are averaging 87.875% in attendance since the lockout, please explain how that is terrible in a SOUTHERN MARKET? I know you hate the Hurricanes, but you're dead wrong about the market based purely on those facts present in attendance, and they are making a profit so I don't see how making a profit is a bad market or terrible? Ummm you're dead wrong in saying it's bad or downright terrible. They are an ok market. Attendance is also always relative of performance on the ice too, unless you're Toronto. You know LA has a 93.6% attendance last year? They all follow the same format, you win games, your attendance is good. I never said Carolina was terrible, I said they were bad. 24th in the NHL this decade in attendance. 20th since the lockout. Only Florida, Atlanta, and Phoenix are worse for southern markets. Their TV ratings are so bad, they don't even release them. They have the 11th highest median household income, and 3rd lowest poverty rate among NHL cities. But in all honesty it all boils down to one simple fact. Crack the top 15 in attendance after winning a cup. Tampa Bay came in first after their cup year. Tampa is a city with a worse median household income, and a worse poverty rate. It can be done. I stand by my assessment. (And to be fair, I'd move the Devils first if I could get away with it). |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
I understand what you're coming from and I agree their are too many southern teams, like Florida, Atlanta, and Phoenix. But some of these markets, like Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas, can do fine, Dallas is doing fine because of their commitment to growing hockey in that area. And the Hurricanes sure are growing hockey in the Raleigh area with leagues and rinks. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
Skyline_BNR34 wrote: I understand what you're coming from and I agree their are too many southern teams, like Florida, Atlanta, and Phoenix. But some of these markets, like Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas, can do fine, Dallas is doing fine because of their commitment to growing hockey in that area. And the Hurricanes sure are growing hockey in the Raleigh area with leagues and rinks. Perhaps they can, but right now they just aren't. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
CriminallyVu1gar wrote: Skyline_BNR34 wrote: I understand what you're coming from and I agree their are too many southern teams, like Florida, Atlanta, and Phoenix. But some of these markets, like Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas, can do fine, Dallas is doing fine because of their commitment to growing hockey in that area. And the Hurricanes sure are growing hockey in the Raleigh area with leagues and rinks. Perhaps they can, but right now they just aren't. I guess so, but you can't pull the plug on something after a year. And now, since they all won a cup, you really would see how sorely they would be missed if suddenly moved. |
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| Author: | Stuuuuuuu [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The NHL Teams: Make a Case for Expansion |
I still think contraction is the only logical move from a business standpoint. I just did a real short search looking for revenue figures, and all I could find was a piece from Jan 28, 2010 that cited the number that revenue was down 2 percent league-wide. Yet we all know how much salaries continue to rise. I keep harping on this, but it's totally unsustainable. If you actually increase the number of teams paying these ridiculous salaries, what will happen? Failure. If there's more competition for the best players because of increased options, salaries will surely go up. If salaries for the best players go up, then salaries for the good players, the average players, and the less than average all end up going up too. Even in the "good" economy of the early 2000s, most teams couldn't make money. Now, even the Sabres barely break even right? And that's with good attendance, TV ratings, mechandise sales, and rabid fans like us following them. So in a shit economy with skyrocketing salaries where many, if not most existing NHL teams lose money, you're going to propose adding teams? Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me. |
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