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| OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6101 |
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| Author: | ironyisadeadscene [ Wed May 11, 2011 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=365375 oh boy! a band-aid on a bullet hole. so this saga continues out for.. ANOTHER YEAR! yeah! |
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| Author: | Timbo Slice [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
Oh Dear Lord... |
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| Author: | sabresrocker56 [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
what the hell |
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| Author: | AudSabres [ Wed May 11, 2011 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
This is awesome! Party time! I'll bring the hookers & blow! |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
I find this statistic telling, and if I was a Glendale resident, I'd probably be pretty pissed. The Coyotes deal will cost every one of Glendale's 227,000 taxpayers roughly $10 a month for the two-year period involved. |
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
Squanto wrote: I find this statistic telling, and if I was a Glendale resident, I'd probably be pretty pissed. The Coyotes deal will cost every one of Glendale's 227,000 taxpayers roughly $10 a month for the two-year period involved. That wouldn't bother me if I was a Glendale resident. Perhaps the concept, but not the cost and if I really loved the team it would be an easy decision. Bring lunch to work instead of eating out once more per month. Boom, cost negated. |
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| Author: | ironyisadeadscene [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
yeah, but alot of people arnt in love with that team. i applaud the NHL for working to keep a team in a city, because there was alot of heartache when previous teams move. but at some point, enough is enough, and that point has passed, and come around again. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
What do the taxpayers get for helping pay for a team, besides the luxury of paying more money to enjoy it anyways? $1 or $10, I'd be pissed if I were paying those losses. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
The facts is people in Glendale are now seeing $240 of their tax dollars per person being used to effectively subsidize a private business, and they had very little say in the matter. This is a city that has understaffed police and fire departments, a city that just increased fares on public transportation, and significantly reduced services for the elderly, who make up a large portion of their population. All but the most devout hockey fan would rather see their tax dollars used for more productive purposes. This is not a productive purpose. The citizens of Glendale should not be required to cover the NHL's financial losses because they cannot properly manage their business. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
Especially since, if for no other reason, city council effectively went against the state constitution. That's the law in Arizona, isn't it - that it's illegal to use tax money to fund private business? |
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| Author: | ironyisadeadscene [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
its arizona... its a different world down there. its like texas, kinda. probably. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
I was asking a hypothetical question - it IS the law in Arizona that tax dollars can't fund private business. And yet, Glendale city council did just that - approved tax dollars for expenditure on a private business. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
Sorta. Basically the government is prohibited from giving a private business funds 'by subsidy or otherwise', although the meaning has been diluted via case law. How it breaks out is simple to explain, but difficult in application. Government can give a tax break, or subsidize to attract a private business, if it is for a legitimate public purpose. That's always tricky to define, but that's how it's applied. The current state of decisions is that anything given must be tied to a TANGIBLE benefit AND be fair market value. For example: Glendale can give a $50M tax break to a developer to build a mall IF that mall will end up bringing up $65M in sales tax revenues and property taxes. That's a tangible benefit; the 'people' profited in cash. On the flip side, they can't give a $50M tax break and be promised '1,000 jobs created'. (For those playing along at home, that's the scam most businesses in NY use. Reduced tax payments tied to pie in the sky job numbers that they never hit.) The problem with this transaction was that Glendale wanted to give the Coyotes $100M for whatever reason they were going to call it, and the $100M was expected to be repaid with parking revenues from Jobing.com Arena for the life of the lease. However, projections showed that there would be nowhere NEAR $100M in parking revenues generated over the lease term. IE, they'd actually LOSE money on the deal. That's why Goldwater stepped in. The government can't (knowingly) enter into a money losing deal on purpose, and there was no chance of Glendale even breaking even on their $100M, eg it was illegal. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
Squanto wrote: This is a city that has understaffed police and fire departments, a city that just increased fares on public transportation, and significantly reduced services for the elderly, who make up a large portion of their population. where is this data? i was just there, for a week, and there are plenty of policemen and the fire watch is so high at all times because it's literally in the desert, that they have plenty of firemen. of course public transportation went up, they only have buses, and gas has went up. glendale may only be 227,00 people, but it's really part of one big city (phoenix). mesa, tempe, sun city, glendale, peoria, chandler, and scottsdale are really one city. yes i know that only glendale is the only one paying taxes. i was just saying that their fan base is over 6 million. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
The data is from city residents who spoke at the meeting where Glendale approved the new payments to keep the Coyotes there. The video is linked off TSN's website somewhere, or maybe Mirtle's blog. There were not normal, run of the mill meeting curmudgeons. They had specifics and facts that were not disputed by the city council. They specifically cited programs that had been cut, and positions in the police and fire departments that were open and not being filled due to budgetary problems. |
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| Author: | Triplez47888 [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
It wouldn't bother me if the coyotes moved one bit as long as Jim Balsillie doesn't get his hands on the team |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
well, i'll bet dollars to doughnuts they're whining about little. there are TONS of cops there. if they don't have enough firemen, they're screwed, because one fire can get big, fast. and the economy down there is so much better than most other places i visited. i think they just don't really want the team there (and no bad on them for that). |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Thu May 12, 2011 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
I think they don't want their tax dollars to go towards a team they don't want there. And I don't blame them one bit. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Thu May 12, 2011 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
that's what i said. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFICIAL: coyotes remain in arizona 1 more year |
Fan 590 reporting Matthew Hulsizer has finally given up and is no longer interested in the Coyotes. |
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