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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:40 am 
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Interesting topic... the families of the trainer from Sea World, Dawn Brancheau, and the slain hiker, Meredith Emerson, are fighting the release of crime scene photos/video.

Here's an article from CNN.com that goes over the whole situation, including precedents set by earlier cases:

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Recent court fights over the videotape of a killer whale attack at SeaWorld in Florida and a writer's request for investigative photos of a slain Georgia hiker's body are rekindling a familiar debate.

The question: Where should the line be drawn between the public's right to know and a crime victim's family's right to privacy?

It's an issue Ada Larson knows well from painful experience. Her daughter, Sonja, was murdered in 1990 by a serial killer known as the Gainesville Ripper.

Danny Harold Rollings mutilated and killed five Florida college students that summer, leaving behind gruesome crime scenes. As part of his ritual, he left his female victims' mutilated corpses in grotesque poses.

"We did not want our loved ones to be put out there in the scenes where they where found, because he was a butcher, and he was cruel," Larson said from her home in Florida.

Along with the families of the other victims, Larson fought in court to seal the autopsy and crime scene photos. After a contentious hearing, Alachua County Judge Stan R. Morris ruled to allow the public and the media to view 700 grisly crime scene and autopsy photos, under the condition that no copies could be made.

"The spirit of the ruling is very clear, you have two competing interests, and they are both valid. You have the public's right to inspect how their money is being used but there is a way that you can accomplish that and respect the rights of the families to privacy," Morris, now retired, told CNN in a phone interview from his home in Florida.

"In 16 years, no one has ever challenged it," the judge said.

Larson never saw the photos and said she cannot imagine what her life would have been like if they had been released to the public.

"It stays with you forever," Larson said. "I don't think you are ever able to heal from that loss. I don't know how I could have done it without my faith."

Larson sees no need to release the video showing the death of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau, 40.

"I would respect the family; it is them who are going through this loss. Why do people need to know more than that?" she said.

In March, Florida Circuit Court Judge Lawrence Kirkwood granted a temporary injunction against the release of the video and ordered mediation for all parties wanting access.

Florida media attorney Rachel Fugate, who specializes in First Amendment and public access cases, will be participating in the mediation on behalf of The Orlando Sentinel, The Tampa Tribune, The Lakeland Ledger and WFLA-TV.

"We are not advocating that the photographs be released or that they be published or broadcast in any manner," she said. "We want the opportunity to inspect."

As Fugate sees it, the public is served by the independent verification the media can provide, especially in cases involving competing or inconsistent versions of events.

"We certainly understand their privacy interest and want to protect them," she said. "We hope the limited viewing would protect that right."

As the SeaWorld case goes forward, Fugate is looking at the precedent set during the 1990 Gainesville killings.

Morris found that allowing the public and media to privately inspect but not distribute the investigative photos posed no risk that the victim's families would be exposed to them.

Jon Mills, the attorney for Brancheau's family, represented the families in the 1990 Gainesville killings. He also fought the release of autopsy photos on behalf of the families of NASCAR driver Dale Earnhardt and Italian fashion designer Gianni Versace.

"The judge should balance the horrific nature of the photographs versus the public value of disclosure," said Mills, a former dean of the University of Florida Law School. "Least exposure is the best option, but we will have a discussion with the media to protect the family and the media's right."

Mills and media attorney Tom Julin worked on opposite sides during the Gainesville 1990 killings and the Dale Earnhardt case. Julin represented the University of Florida's student-run newspaper, The Independent Florida Alligator.

Julin says the Earnhardt case was of particular importance because it proved first-hand the need for independent verification.

After Earnhardt's death during a race, NASCAR announced the results of an internal investigation that concluded that a faulty seat belt harness was to blame for his fatal head and neck fractures.

Skeptical of these findings, media outlets attempted to obtain Earnhardt's autopsy records and photos, but the family filed an injunction to seal these documents.

After mediation, the media agreed to appoint an independent expert to review the autopsy documents and file a report. The report concluded that Earnhardt's death was the result of inadequate restraints, not a broken seat belt harness. The findings led to several safety improvements in the race car industry.


To maintain the integrity of an open court system, "the public needs to see the evidence for themselves," Julin said.

"We have an open judicial system, and we have to keep it open in order to maintain confidence in the system," he said. "You have confidence that law enforcement has made the right decision."

He sympathizes with family members of crime victims and believes there is a way to protect them without compromising public confidence.

"When you are a victim of a crime, there is a natural tendency to want to conceal, but there are other interests to balance when someone is on trial," Julin said. "You don't want the photos so widely distributed that it causes unnecessary pain to the family."

Although 20 years have passed since her daughter's murder, Larson still sometimes relives the crime and its aftermath.

"I go over what happened in my mind sometimes and how she must have struggled," she said. "I do go over it, but the Lord gives me peace. It changed me immensely. Nothing was the same anymore."

Julin says legislators are quick to overreact during high-profile cases and "don't think of the broader issue." He cited Georgia House Bill 1322, the Meredith Emerson Memorial Privacy Act, as an example.

The bill, now in the Georgia Senate, was enacted after a writer for Hustler magazine requested crime scene photos of 24-year-old hiker Meredith Emerson, whose naked body was found decapitated in the north Georgia mountains. (side note... that is fucking disgusting...)

If signed into law, Georgia House Bill 1322 will prohibit the disclosure of any photos or video that "may depict or describe the deceased nude, grossly dismembered, or decapitated."


So what do you all think? Where does the line need to be drawn?

I was personally disgusted by the media repeatedly showing that poor luger falling to his death during the olympics... and that wasn't even close to being as gruesome as some of these cases.

Does the public have a right to exposure of these photos? Should they be broadcasted, or viewed by request only? Or should they not be shown at all?

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sabresindc
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:48 am 
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As someone who is experienced in crime scene investigations and crime scene photography, I am completely against releasing those photo's to the media for the general public's viewing "pleasure". There is something the general public should never see!!! Trust me, there is nothing pleasurable to view with any of those photos. It's the demented side of people that have a need to see those.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:50 am 
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I can see both sides of the argument, but my position is biased. I've seen plenty of gruesome crime scenes firsthand from my EMS days. Some still haunt me, and it's been 10 years since I was in that field.

I don't think the general public needs to see that stuff, but I do think it should be available to investigative reporters or those that make requests for it.

Just don't publish it on the photos page of the local paper.


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Rutledge222
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:10 am 
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No. Some are just... terrible... I think it would be better for the people NOT to see certain photos.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:22 pm 
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The death at Sea World wasn't a crime and I see no compelling reason anyone but the family and investigators should ever see that video.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
The death at Sea World wasn't a crime and I see no compelling reason anyone but the family and investigators should ever see that video.


As silly as this sounds, the argument is that we wouldn't know for sure it wasn't a crime unless we saw the footage, and since our tax dollars are being used in the investigations of this incident, we deserve the right to see it for our own confirmations.

I say, if people really need the verification, make it accessible to view by visiting the police station. Don't give them any copies, just allow them to view it.

It gives us the option to review material in case something strange happens that we feel the need to investigate ourselves, but it keeps vulgar and detrimental material out of the media and the hands of the public.

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Displaced Fan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:42 pm 
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I think it's reasonable for the family, if they desire, to be given access to photos or video but releasing them to the media seems irresponsible and disrespectful.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Personally, I feel it's very disrespectful and unnecessary for the general public to have access to crime scene photos/videos.

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sabresindc
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:35 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
Crosscheck wrote:
The death at Sea World wasn't a crime and I see no compelling reason anyone but the family and investigators should ever see that video.


As silly as this sounds, the argument is that we wouldn't know for sure it wasn't a crime unless we saw the footage, and since our tax dollars are being used in the investigations of this incident, we deserve the right to see it for our own confirmations.

I say, if people really need the verification, make it accessible to view by visiting the police station. Don't give them any copies, just allow them to view it.

It gives us the option to review material in case something strange happens that we feel the need to investigate ourselves, but it keeps vulgar and detrimental material out of the media and the hands of the public.

Yes, that is the "argument" but most average citizens wouldn't be able tell between a "crime" and say a suicide...hell, some natural death scenes can be pretty gruesome. They use that bullshit argument just to see the pictures, videos, etc. Its a sick voyeuristic need.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:44 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
As silly as this sounds, the argument is that we wouldn't know for sure it wasn't a crime unless we saw the footage, and since our tax dollars are being used in the investigations of this incident, we deserve the right to see it for our own confirmations.

The general public has no right to see crime scene evidence (except for a jury trial) and has no authority to declare something a crime or not.

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
PuckSniperPensel wrote:
As silly as this sounds, the argument is that we wouldn't know for sure it wasn't a crime unless we saw the footage, and since our tax dollars are being used in the investigations of this incident, we deserve the right to see it for our own confirmations.

The general public has no right to see crime scene evidence (except for a jury trial) and has no authority to declare something a crime or not.


Not advocating... only informing. ;)

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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:11 pm 
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Absolutely not.

People are sort of heartless, and they will look them up out of no other reason than morbid curiosity. I know that I do... The releasing of stuff like that to the general public is incredibly disrespectful, in my opinion. All that will happen is that half the people who see the pictures will marvel at them, while the other half crack jokes.

A friend in high school lost a good friend our senior year, and the circumstances of his death caused it to be on the news; people commented on the story on WGRZ saying that they were glad he was dead because someone so stupid does not deserve to live, while his wife did not eat or sleep for two weeks because she was so distressed. What if his two-year-old daughter had been old enough to use the internet and saw people saying those things about her father, whom they did not know at all? Ever since then I can't stand when people joke about that kind of thing (well, I couldn't, anyway, but now I'll actually say something ha)... Those are real people you're hurting, real circumstances.

Anyway, I think that the public is owed a LOT less in general than what they want to know; NOTHING is any of their business. To release what shows the final moments of a person's life? Absolutely not.

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PatGreen
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:03 am 
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acrossthelines wrote:
Anyway, I think that the public is owed a LOT less in general than what they want to know; NOTHING is any of their business.

If any of my tax dollars go to it, I deserve to know why and what. That's not just with this situation, either. Anything I have stock in is my business.


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acrossthelines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:51 am 
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PatGreen wrote:
acrossthelines wrote:
Anyway, I think that the public is owed a LOT less in general than what they want to know; NOTHING is any of their business.

If any of my tax dollars go to it, I deserve to know why and what. That's not just with this situation, either. Anything I have stock in is my business.


It's a straightforward thing, though, when it's crime scene photos that are being discussed; a simple description will suffice. There is nothing contained in the images themselves that any person outside those directly involved in any investigation need to know, or would benefit from knowing. Yes, it is a good thing to know what your dollars are supporting; however, when the choice is made between that and someone else's privacy in specific circumstances, I will side with the right to privacy, which, though not a Constitutionally protected right, has been just as strongly established by numerous rulings of the Supreme Court.

I just don't see how releasing crime scene photos will do any good, or anything at all outside of satisfying people's curiosity to see things that they have no right or reason to see in the first place.

I was referring, with that comment, to information pertaining specifically to people that those speaking about said people have never met, anyway. That is not something they are owed.

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