:: View topic - President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash

SMOLENSK, Russia - The crash of an aging Russian airliner ravaged the top levels of Poland's military, political and church elite Saturday, killing the Polish president and dozens of other dignitaries as they traveled to a ceremony commemorating a slaughter that has divided the two nations for seven decades.

Poles wept before their televisions, lowered flags to half-staff and taped black ribbons in their windows after hearing that the upper echelons of the establishment lay dead in woods a short drive from the site of the Katyn forest massacre, one of Poland's greatest national traumas.

Thousands of people, many in tears, placed candles and flowers at the presidential palace in central Warsaw. Many called the crash Poland's worst disaster since World War II

This is really sad, but here's what I don't understand...My company (a sizable internet firm with offices all around the country) has an explicit travel policy about how many members of the same department can fly on a plane together or how many upper level executives can fly on a plane together. It's a fairly common business continuity practice.

We have similar policies in our own government...why didn't Poland?
There were FAR too many important people on that plane.

Polish officials have been complaining about the nation's air fleet for years, although this seems to be more of a pilot error than a mechanical problem.

that plane is still produced. youd be shocked how old many of the planes you fly in are. many still flying date back to the 60s and 70s, more in the 80s though.

The age of the plane doesn't really bother me actually (the caveat being that it was properly maintained). The 747 was designed in the 60's and has been flying since 1970 too.

The thing that would bother me is that it was Soviet built. I would no sooner fly in plane built in the Soviet Union/Russia than I would eat a food product made in China.

ironyisadeadscene wrote:

that plane is still produced. youd be shocked how old many of the planes you fly in are. many still flying date back to the 60s and 70s, more in the 80s though.

According to the New York Times the Soviets ended mass production of the Tupolev Tu-154 20 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world ... anted=2&hp

Crosscheck wrote:

The age of the plane doesn't really bother me actually (the caveat being that it was properly maintained). The 747 was designed in the 60's and has been flying since 1970 too.

The thing that would bother me is that it was Soviet built. I would no sooner fly in plane built in the Soviet Union/Russia than I would eat a food product made in China.

Godzilla1960 wrote:

ironyisadeadscene wrote:

that plane is still produced. youd be shocked how old many of the planes you fly in are. many still flying date back to the 60s and 70s, more in the 80s though.

According to the New York Times the Soviets ended mass production of the Tupolev Tu-154 20 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world ... anted=2&hp

Crosscheck wrote:

The age of the plane doesn't really bother me actually (the caveat being that it was properly maintained). The 747 was designed in the 60's and has been flying since 1970 too.

The thing that would bother me is that it was Soviet built. I would no sooner fly in plane built in the Soviet Union/Russia than I would eat a food product made in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154

mass production ended in 1998, and they began limited production.

According to the New York Times the Soviets ended mass production of the Tupolev Tu-154 20 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world ... anted=2&hp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154

mass production ended in 1998, and they began limited production.

Godzilla1960 wrote:

According to the New York Times the Soviets ended mass production of the Tupolev Tu-154 20 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world ... anted=2&hp

ironyisadeadscene wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154

mass production ended in 1998, and they began limited production.

I still wouldn't trust my life to Russian technology.[/color]

Author:	Rud [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:	President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36352097/ns ... ws-europe/ Quote: SMOLENSK, Russia - The crash of an aging Russian airliner ravaged the top levels of Poland's military, political and church elite Saturday, killing the Polish president and dozens of other dignitaries as they traveled to a ceremony commemorating a slaughter that has divided the two nations for seven decades. Poles wept before their televisions, lowered flags to half-staff and taped black ribbons in their windows after hearing that the upper echelons of the establishment lay dead in woods a short drive from the site of the Katyn forest massacre, one of Poland's greatest national traumas. Thousands of people, many in tears, placed candles and flowers at the presidential palace in central Warsaw. Many called the crash Poland's worst disaster since World War II This is unbelievably tragic.

Author:	Melly317 [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
I read this earlier. The location where the plan crashed is kind of eerie. They crashed near the memorial of a massacre they were going to commemorate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Author:	mechaphil [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Holy shit, imagine the level of chaos going on in Polish government right now. Raise a glass of Tyskie in memory of all those lost.

Author:	Van_Da_Man [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
That country has had nothing but problems over the last hundred years.

Author:	acrossthelines [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Yeah, read about that. That's a lot of people. Poland's had it rough.

http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/

President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2927	Page 1 of 2

Author:	ironyisadeadscene [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
i dont get why poland is so cursed.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
This is really sad, but here's what I don't understand...My company (a sizable internet firm with offices all around the country) has an explicit travel policy about how many members of the same department can fly on a plane together or how many upper level executives can fly on a plane together. It's a fairly common business continuity practice. We have similar policies in our own government...why didn't Poland? There were FAR too many important people on that plane.

Author:	NYIntensity [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
How about this - why the hell was the PRESIDENT of Poland on a 20 year old airplane?!

Author:	Godzilla1960 [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Crosscheck wrote: This is really sad, but here's what I don't understand...My company (a sizable internet firm with offices all around the country) has an explicit travel policy about how many members of the same department can fly on a plane together or how many upper level executives can fly on a plane together. It's a fairly common business continuity practice. We have similar policies in our own government...why didn't Poland? There were FAR too many important people on that plane. Your company also probably has a prohibition against flying in out-of-production 20 year old Tupolev planes that were designed by the Soviets in the 1960s (well, maybe your company policy isn't that specific). Polish officials have been complaining about the nation's air fleet for years, although this seems to be more of a pilot error than a mechanical problem.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Godzilla1960 wrote: Polish officials have been complaining about the nation's air fleet for years, although this seems to be more of a pilot error than a mechanical problem. Oh, I know, I'm just amazed they allowed so many high level officials on the same aircraft, no matter what it was. The age of the plane doesn't really bother me actually (the caveat being that it was properly maintained). The 747 was designed in the 60's and has been flying since 1970 too.

Author:	Squanto [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
We also have a 'hit by a bus compliant' travel policy for my boss and I. We do hang out quite a bit outside of work, and the owner asked us to not travel in the same vehicle when we go out of town. If we were both incapacitated, our company would be in a world of shit.

Author:	Crosscheck [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Godzilla1960 wrote: The thing that would bother me is that it was Soviet built. I would no sooner fly in plane built in the Soviet Union/Russia than I would eat a food product made in China. I can agree with that. You want scary Soviet era technology? Go take a walk through the Soviet scorpion submarine they have parked next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach. Just walking / crawling through that thing scared me and it's parked next to a dock.

Author:	HelloMyKneeGrows [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
ironyisadeadscene wrote: Godzilla1960 wrote: ironyisadeadscene wrote: that plane is still produced. youd be shocked how old many of the planes you fly in are. many still flying date back to the 60s and 70s, more in the 80s though. According to the New York Times the Soviets ended mass production of the Tupolev Tu-154 20 years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world ... anted=2&hp Crosscheck wrote: The age of the plane doesn't really bother me actually (the caveat being that it was properly maintained). The 747 was designed in the 60's and has been flying since 1970 too. The thing that would bother me is that it was Soviet built. I would no sooner fly in plane built in the Soviet Union/Russia than I would eat a food product made in China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154 mass production ended in 1998, and they began limited production.

Author:	BlueandYellow [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Was the vice president on the plane? That would fuck Poland over like never before.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Godzilla1960 [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: President of Poland & 96 Others Die in Plane Crash
Godzilla1960 wrote: According to the New York Times the Soviets ended mass production of the Tupolev Tu-154 20 years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world ... anted=2&hp ironyisadeadscene wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154 mass production ended in 1998, and they began limited production. Thanks for the link to the Wikipedia article, irony. I now know more about the Tupolev Tu-154 than I ever thought I would. It doesn't look like it will be a major issue in the cause of the crash, but I still don't have a definitive answer about when the Russians stopped producing the plane. The New York Times stated the plane ended mass production 20 years ago. You say they ended mass production in 1998. Your Wikipedia article says that the specific version of this plane, the Tu-154M Lux, ended mass production in 2006 and that no new airframes have been built since the early 1990s (the only production since then has involved assembling airplanes from components on hand - great, they must be building the planes in somebody's back yard). The link for the 1998 date is just an aviation discussion board, not unlike the one we are currently on, and the actual Wikipedia article states that some versions of the plane have been built since then. If the Wikipedia article is correct, then the New York Times is wrong in stating that the Russians "halted mass production 20 years ago" (the article's authors cite Paul Hayes, director of accidents and insurance at Ascend, as their source for that bit of info). All this may not matter (except it bugs me when reporters aren't exact in their information) considering that the plane has an average safety record and that mechanical issues were most likely not the cause of this accident. I still wouldn't trust my life to Russian technology.