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| Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3905 |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
They're officially canceling the proposed store in Buffalo that they've been jerking us around on since 2001. For those that aren't up to speed on this, Bass Pro said they'd build a store here back in 2001, but weaseled their way into demanding all kinds of public money to do it. They got what they wanted, but never officially committed to doing it. Last week, Rep. Higgins sent them a letter giving them 14 days to sign the lease paperwork committing them to the project, or the Harbor Development corporation was going to move on without them. They had until Tuesday to answer, but said today that they're not going to build the store. I think this is great. No massive public subsidy for a project that wasn't a slam dunk to begin with. Hopefully that money can get re purposed for better uses, although knowing NY it won't be. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
What's more is I do believe there is litigation on the table somewhere in the nation regarding Bass Pro's habit of accepting MASSIVE public subsidies and then never making good on their promise to build stores. The Buffalo case is one of the central exhibits for how Bass Pro jerks around municipalities, apparently. |
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| Author: | AudSabres [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Sonofabitch... Granted, the building was in rough shape for a long time, but they led the city on to think they would plunk their shop right where the Aud was. I have no idea what would have become of the place or if it was even financially possible to reno & reopen it (In some capacity), but seeing old buildings with so much history like that ripped down eats my ass. But like you said man, maybe the money will go towards other projects which are of greater importance. I'd like to see something in place of that gaping crater where the ole barn once stood. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Well, one idea is to try and lure an IKEA here (which would be MUCH more alluring than a Bass Pro) but apparently IKEA has said no in the past? I dunno. I'd like to see an early-20th century warehouse-type structure with architectural flourishes outside and shopping, dining, and recreation facilities inside. It would work just fine and would probably be much more feasible and attractive than a Bass Pro. |
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| Author: | jvaccaro6 [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
I think you guys underestimate the worth of a Bass Pro because the vast majority here aren't outdoors men. Bass Pro Shops is more than just a tackle and lure place, they hold classes, host tournaments, sell almost any piece of survival kit you'd need, and are kinda touristy in their own way. Given that the nearest one is in Auburn NY, or Toronto; the Buffalo store would have serviced, Chautauqua County, Erie PA, Eastern Ohio, and Niagara Falls, Hamilton, etc. IKEA, sure it'd be nice and all that, but whats really the demand for cheap furniture? Might as well just build a giant Target there. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Jay, Bass Pro is being sued in a huge lawsuit by a number of municipalities that were jerked around and offered up public subsidies and tax breaks like Buffalo - obviously there's not much value to be had if their executive operations are being called fraudulent across the country. |
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| Author: | acrossthelines [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Finally. I've lived here since 2001. |
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| Author: | jvaccaro6 [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
mechaphil wrote: Jay, Bass Pro is being sued in a huge lawsuit by a number of municipalities that were jerked around and offered up public subsidies and tax breaks like Buffalo - obviously there's not much value to be had if their executive operations are being called fraudulent across the country. I don't put much stock in their management or ethical business practices, but their product remains quality, high demand, and retains its' value even though the company is run by a bunch of weasels. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
You speak as if you expected they'd move in, dude. It was never happening, especially after 9 years of talk. The city could easily have a Dick's Outdoor Store move in and it'd be just fine but probably 1/4 as expensive. |
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| Author: | Sabres2Sabres [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Good. It was a bad idea in the first place. I've seen places with Bass Pro Shops where it has done nothing to help the area, as was promised. There's no conclusive evidence that they have helped any areas they have moved in to. I don't believe Bass Pro is in the wrong though...it's our own damn fault for giving them so long. |
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| Author: | jvaccaro6 [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
It could have been done, it's just that mistakes were made on both sides; and that property has been vacant for 9, because politics had to be played. Nobody gave them a shit or get off the pot situation until 9 years later? Thats insane. Also a Dicks outdoors store vs a Bass Pro, thats like comparing the toy section at a grocery store with an FAO Schwarz |
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| Author: | fly as hale [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Good fuck Bass Pro. |
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| Author: | mechaphil [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
I propose a complex roughly the shape of the Aud, but slightly bigger. Make it four stories tall. 1F is where shops and a food court (food stands, booths, etc) or restaurants sit. 2F and 3F are multi-use sports floors. Make each one a 2,000-seat rink for all I care, with the ability to lay down floor and turf. 4F are bars and restauarants, with windows on all sides. Also, an enclosed-canopy ferris wheel (Skywheel) could happen, too. Maybe an indoors midway/arcade, too. Give it an mini-MSG + Coney Island feel. It would bring in families for shopping and dining right down on the waterfront, give the city and county facilities to host sectional and state sports championships as well as regional leagues place to play, and would provide more room to wine and dine during those years the NCAA comes here for March Madness or the Frozen Four. (Yes, I know about the Pepsi Center, but ya know what? Fuck the suburbs. The suburbs are doing just fine - it's the city that needs the draw, not the burbs) |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
fucking stupid. buffalo should have worked with them to get it done. they played phone tag for 5 years and never really worked on it. fucking stupid. another ten years of the waterfront wasting and looking like shit is on the horizon. both parties involved are fucking stupid. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
mechaphil wrote: I propose a complex roughly the shape of the Aud, but slightly bigger. Make it four stories tall. 1F is where shops and a food court (food stands, booths, etc) or restaurants sit. 2F and 3F are multi-use sports floors. Make each one a 2,000-seat rink for all I care, with the ability to lay down floor and turf. 4F are bars and restauarants, with windows on all sides. Also, an enclosed-canopy ferris wheel (Skywheel) could happen, too. Maybe an indoors midway/arcade, too. Give it an mini-MSG + Coney Island feel. It would bring in families for shopping and dining right down on the waterfront, give the city and county facilities to host sectional and state sports championships as well as regional leagues place to play, and would provide more room to wine and dine during those years the NCAA comes here for March Madness or the Frozen Four. (Yes, I know about the Pepsi Center, but ya know what? Fuck the suburbs. The suburbs are doing just fine - it's the city that needs the draw, not the burbs) sorry but that would fail. that's a 50 year plan at best and it wouldn't draw enough people to make it sustainable. bass pro or cabelas is the best bet to start things down there. IT DOES DRAW PEOPLE. of course there's no conclusive evidence, because how the fuck do you even do that study scientifically? you'd have to have every person that came in for a year say how far they drove from. i personally drove to auburn several times to go to bass pro. i don't think any of you besides jay understand what that area is for outdoorsmen. the great lakes and its tributaries are WORLD CLASS fishing. no, i'm not making it up. people come from all over to go there. if a bass pro goes up there, people come there, not only to go to the store, but to fish, camp, eat, sleep. that is a huge multiplier of income. within a couple years that store would have paid for itself and then more businesses could have been given tax breaks to develop the waterfront. if people drive an average of 100 miles for a bass pro, which i will say is fairly accurate, you're getting people from Canada, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and everyone from Rochester and bath over as a pool for this store. that's an insanely huge amount of customers. there is tons of public hunting lands in the area too. stupid that both sides were so retarded when it came to this. |
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| Author: | Crosscheck [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Cabela's >>>>>>>> Bass Pro Fuck Bass Pro, but pretty please use that public money to actually build something. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
As Phil said, Bass Pro has a history of milking municipalities to get public money to pay for their projects. Down in Memphis, they signed a lease to take over The Pyramid....contingent on $68.7M in public funding. The expected rent payments back to the city over the 20 year lease? $20M. Sounds like a great deal. Bass Pro wanted money to retrofit the Aud. They got it, yet wouldn't sign the lease to commit. Then Bass Pro decided that they couldn't retrofit, and needed the building to be razed. Except they wanted the City to pay for it. They did, yet Bass Pro STILL wouldn't sign the lease to commit. Bass Pro had a LOT of public money coming their way to get the store built. They were jerking Memphis around for years too until just last month, almost as long as Buffalo. Buffalo may have screwed parts of this deal up, but we're better off for it. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
PatGreen wrote: if people drive an average of 100 miles for a bass pro, which i will say is fairly accurate, you're getting people from Canada, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and everyone from Rochester and bath over as a pool for this store. that's an insanely huge amount of customers. there is tons of public hunting lands in the area too. Except that there's already a Bass Pro in Toronto. There goes your Canadian shoppers. Except that there's already a Bass Pro in Auburn. There goes your Central NY and some of your PA shoppers. Except that there's already 2 Bass Pros in Ohio. There go those shoppers. Buffalo had a great advantage of location being right on Lake Erie, and it could have been a great thing. But, at what cost? |
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| Author: | Sabres2Sabres [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
I have no problem with Bass Pro coming to the area. But not at public expense. There are many ways to put that money to better use. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bass Pro blinks ; Buffalo store off the table |
Squanto wrote: Except that there's already a Bass Pro in Toronto. There goes your Canadian shoppers. Except that there's already a Bass Pro in Auburn. There goes your Central NY and some of your PA shoppers. Except that there's already 2 Bass Pros in Ohio. There go those shoppers. Buffalo had a great advantage of location being right on Lake Erie, and it could have been a great thing. But, at what cost? you usually make good points, but that's the most stupid thing you've ever said. draw a radius between all of those stores. there is quite a bit of mileage from one to another. i'm not saying bass pro was right in this situation, i'm saying both buffalo and bass pro are fucking retarded. it should not have taken ten years to do this. this whole shebang should have been on the front burner and started (or cancelled) in 2002. buffalo should get their fingers out of their poop chute and try to make a deal with cabelas. |
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