Dammit this is the second time I have been fooled by a sexy man.
I'll never forget the first time though. 
http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/ |
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| Canada beauty pagent controversy http://www.sabresjunkie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7061 |
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| Author: | Sabresfansince1980 [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Canada beauty pagent controversy |
http://gma.yahoo.com/miss-universe-disq ... -news.html I know the logic behind both arguments. On one hand DNA says what gender you are no matter how much surgery tries to change it. On the other hand plenty of women have implants and whatever else, so how different should that surgery be viewed as opposed to gender re-assignment surgery? Well I have another question. Why should surgery be involved in the debate at all? If many contestants have surgery in some form or another in order to enhance themselves somehow, why should we bicker over what type of surgery? After all, gender re-assignment surgery doesn't actually change your gender, it just gives you the appearance of having the parts you want. Hormone therapy tries to push the balance closer to the gender someone prefers, but why should that be a factor in a beauty contest anyway? What I'm wondering is that if female beauty pageants (a silly farce in it's own right anyway, imo) eventually agree to allow transgender contestants, isn't that a discrimination against men who haven't had surgery but still want to compete? If they allow someone who's had the therapy and surgery, but there's also a cross-dressing man that can doll up really well and look beautiful (after shaving of course), should they not also allow him to compete? Both the transgender and cross-dressing person are still male by DNA. It's supposed to be about beauty anyway, not sex. So as soon as transgender people are allowed, I hope the cross-dressing community raises hell against their discrimination. These are very deep thoughts to ponder while bored at work. I can't wait for the responses. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
I saw that they banned that "girl" from competing. It's stupid because "she" is a good looking "female" It's a beauty contest, isn't beauty only portrayed on the outside anyways and not actually whether you have a dick or vagina? But now I don't know what is real anymore. Are all the very hot tall females actually men? Some guys are born with two X's though. Rare, but this person could have very easily been one of those guys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome |
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| Author: | Sabresfansince1980 [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
If you're confused about all this male/female stuff, I know a certain street you can pay a small fee in order to figure it out up close and personal, with any combination of male/female attributes you'd like to learn about...lol. |
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| Author: | AudSabres [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
I'd like to see the official contest rules to see what is considered an acceptable contestant. If there is anything written in the books that states in order to qualify you must have a vagina, then what is the problem? If it states that said contestant must have been born a female with female DNA and the whole 9 yards, then they have reason to back up their ruling. If, however, that is not in there, this could be one long, drawn out fight in court. Not offering a “Yay” or “Nay” opinion on this as I try to stay away from these types of discussions, but I would like to see the fine print… |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
I think I read that they have to be born a female on yahoo a few days ago when I first heard of this. I dunno though if it was true or if my memory is shot. |
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| Author: | Crosscheck [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
The only controversy is she entered the contest knowing full well she was in violation of their "natural born" rule. And she lied on her application. http://www.thestar.com/living/article/1 ... -born-rule |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
This really is cut and dry. - She was born a male. - She went through hormone and gender reassignment surgery to become female. Ergo, she was not naturally born a female. The contest rules state you must be a naturally born female. Since she was not, AND she lied on her application about being so, then she deserved to be DQed. While this might be discrimination against the trans-gendered, Miss Universe Canada _might_ be allowed to do so anyways. Private organizations can make legally discriminatory participation rules if they so choose in the US. ( Boy Scouts of America v. Dale ) |
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| Author: | Displaced Fan [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
Dammit this is the second time I have been fooled by a sexy man. I'll never forget the first time though.
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
I have not seen the actual application to know for sure. However, the applicant was a naturally born female (gender), and since she'd undergone SRS, currently female (sex). If it asked for natural born sex, then yes, she lied. |
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| Author: | Montalo [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
AudSabres wrote: I'd like to see the official contest rules to see what is considered an acceptable contestant. If there is anything written in the books that states in order to qualify you must have a vagina, then what is the problem? If it states that said contestant must have been born a female with female DNA and the whole 9 yards, then they have reason to back up their ruling. If, however, that is not in there, this could be one long, drawn out fight in court. Not offering a “Yay” or “Nay” opinion on this as I try to stay away from these types of discussions, but I would like to see the fine print… this was the miss black beauty one, but i figure the rules are close it states "d. You must be a natural born female." |
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| Author: | Howie Hodge [ Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
Whether you agree or not; it says you must have a vagina - and not a scar. Pretty clear cut. |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
Howie Hodge wrote: Whether you agree or not; it says you must have a vagina - and not a scar. Pretty clear cut. What if they were getting pounded by an immensely huge dick and caused their vagina to rip, thus causing them to have a scar?  Is that still allowed then?
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| Author: | CriminallyVu1gar [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
'Natural Born Female' is not clear cut as it does not specify sex or gender. |
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| Author: | PatGreen [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
natural born female has a loophole? where? |
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| Author: | BlueandYellow [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
CriminallyVu1gar wrote: 'Natural Born Female' is not clear cut as it does not specify sex or gender. it says female... that's a gender. |
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| Author: | Montalo [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
BlueandYellow wrote: CriminallyVu1gar wrote: 'Natural Born Female' is not clear cut as it does not specify sex or gender. it says female... that's a gender. and it is also a sex |
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| Author: | Displaced Fan [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
This isn't a philosophical debate. She wasn't born with a vagina. The rest of the conversation about transgender feelings and identity has nothing to do with it. |
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| Author: | Howie Hodge [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
Skyline_BNR34 wrote: Howie Hodge wrote: Whether you agree or not; it says you must have a vagina - and not a scar. Pretty clear cut. What if they were getting pounded by an immensely huge dick and caused their vagina to rip, thus causing them to have a scar? Is that still allowed then? They'd still have a vagina; so yes. And perhaps you need to go a little easier on those ladies with your large member..... |
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| Author: | Skyline_BNR34 [ Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
PatGreen wrote: natural born female has a loophole? where? I'm trying to find it too. |
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| Author: | Squanto [ Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Canada beauty pagent controversy |
CriminallyVu1gar wrote: 'Natural Born Female' is not clear cut as it does not specify sex or gender. It's as clear cut as it gets. This individual was born with full male reproductive organs. He went through gender reassignment to become female. By any interpretation, this person was not naturally born as a female. The fact that the pagent even put this question on the application clearly means that the organizers considered the possibility of a transgendered individual applying, and did not want them to be eligible, as is their right as a private organization.* If you could say 'Well, I was born with male reproductive organs and genetics, but I FELT like I was female, so I should be considered female.", then you could just as easily say "Well, I was born white, but I FEEL like I'm black, so I should be considered african american." She's a transgendered female, and the pagent rules specifically forbid that person from entering. A court of law will determine if the restriction is legal in Canada, but past that nothing 'wrong' was done. * Assuming they follow a similar stance as the US does. |
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