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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Phil:

That machine was supposedly to administer the sedative to all of them at the same time, which was only peripherally mentioned at best if I remember, so it would make sense to think that it is also functioning to 'bridge' them together somehow. But does it not seem like a pretty glaring oversite to not explain it in some way?

And for the top: It wobbled at the end, i BELIEVE because it hit an imperfection in the table, was it about to right itself dream-stylee, or was it about to topple?

And for the father-in-law: IF there had been a larger reality we never saw, then the stepfather would have been (assuming we're still one level down) the first dream level. Just because INSIDE that dream they did numerous other dream-time maneuvers doesnt necessarily mean that we were seeing 'reality'.

Christ my head hurts.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:29 pm 
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YIR,
Regardless of how deep they were down, the dreams about Cobb and Mal's house were constructed from memory (as were all those other levels). The only outside influences that permeated them were other interconnected dreamers, so it would be impossible for someone who wasn't there in the dreams to suddenly appear. Hence, why I think Michael Caine's presence proves it isn't a dream.

I'm willing to believe we were seeing reality because it took Mal and Cobb 50+ years to design their dream city and everything was perfect and symmetrical (besides the block that held the buildings they all lived in throughout history), but at the end he had to get off a plane, travel the terminal, get to his house, and instead of his mother-in-law calling the kids off-screen, his father-in-law called them into the house. The perceived geographical distance, asymmetricality of the entire sequence of scenes, and the differences in who was at the house at the end lead me to believe it was reality because there's no precedent to say Cobb had hit a fifth (or even sixth level down) to give him enough time to construct something that much more elaborate than what he and Mal could ever do. That the top wobbled, imperfection in the table or no imperfection, is indication enough to me to confirm my beliefs.

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Wozniak
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:43 pm 
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PHIL:

In the movie they make it seem as though Cobb as been gone for a fairly long time. if thats the case then why havent the kids aged at all and why are they in the same clothing, doing the same motions and everything.

Theres an interesting theory floating around the internet that says that the entire movie is Cobbs dream and that throughout the film hes is fighting to determine if what he is experiencing is real or not. the thing that people point to with this is his totem. through out the movie he always catches it before it stops so he (and consequently us) are never actually aware where he is. Its only at the end of the movie that he doesnt catch it mid spin. The theory suggests that he has accepted that he is in a dream and has made it his new reality now, im not saying that i believe that theory, its just one that i found interesting.

as far as the time it takes to create something. they never actually give a time frame as to how long it takes. based on the maze quiz that Cobb gave Ellen Page (forgot the characters name) it could only be a few seconds. however, i can see that if your going to do a more elaborate dream or a multi-level dream then it would take a considerable about of time to do. The time could be even shorter if your pulling from memories like Cobb would have done at the end (if he is still in fact dreaming).

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:11 pm 
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WAIT A SECOND!

Ok...you know when dicaprio and his wife wake up in their house after the 50 or so years spent in the dreamplace, building their city? there was no machine there, no sedatives, they're just sprawled on the floor. SO, either the machine was not necessary for them to share dreams, OR that was yet another dream layer, in which case his wife was right, and dicaprio was dreaming the entire time, and should have jumped off the building with her. The more I think about this movie the more confuzzled I get, I might have to go see it again.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Holy shit, YIR
So, if this supports the theory that he'd been dreaming the whole movie, how often did the movie spend in reality, do you think?

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:28 pm 
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mechaphil wrote:
Holy shit, YIR
So, if this supports the theory that he'd been dreaming the whole movie, how often did the movie spend in reality, do you think?


IF (thats a big if), he is dreaming the whole time, then we saw 0% reality. They never 'panned back' timewise from 'that' (the last level) reality. Man this movie is hard to talk about with terms that make sense. levels and reality and dream machines. Bah! (holy crap this movie was so good.)


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Given that Cobb was described as being the best extractor and dream architect, perhaps he achieved an enlightened state of dream communing. I know it's a big stretch, but this is the kind of movie whose open-ended plot allows for absurd spitballing haha

At this point I'm willing to bet that one deviant scene from the rest of the communal dreaming moments indicates the entire thing is a dream state.

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PatGreen
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:51 pm 
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Phil and YIR
I WANT TO BE PART OF YOUR CLUB!!!!


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Have you seen it yet, Pat? Let us know your thoughts if you have.

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PatGreen
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:12 pm 
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no, i don't go to movies unless i'm going to laugh my ass up or lots of things blow up in an epic battle between heroes and villains.


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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Yeah this third page of the thread is probably more tempting to people who haven't seen the movie than a separate, spoiler thread would be. Basically, the rug has been pulled from underneath the casual reader.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Stuuuuuuu wrote:
Yeah this third page of the thread is probably more tempting to people who haven't seen the movie than a separate, spoiler thread would be. Basically, the rug has been pulled from underneath the casual reader.

Or they can just ignore the spoiler buttons.

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Stuuuuuuu
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Yeah, like people ignore the button labeled "DO NOT PUSH THIS BUTTON"


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:15 pm 
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Oh well, If they choose not to exercise any self-control and they read something that ruins the movie for them, too damn bad.

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:47 pm 
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PHIL!!!
I love porn

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:50 pm 
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BlueandYellow wrote:
PHIL!!!
I love porn

DUDE!
Nothin wrong with that at all :D

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BlueandYellow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:50 pm 
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:text-+1:

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YankeeInRaleigh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:56 pm 
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lol...ha, I can see how a page full of only spoiler tags could be annoying. But seriously, you guys need to see this freaking movie and come talk to us about it.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:01 pm 
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I was reading Roger Ebert's blog posts about it and he's had some REALLY good comments, which is unusual cuz he brings out the troll in people lol

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peteythedancingsabre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:04 pm 
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I started watching it when it was nearing the end, cause I was on break at work. Looked pretty cool, but I was hella confused. I'd like to watch the whole thing sometime though.


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