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Los9090
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Jim Bob wrote:
Rumor is that Mac got a huge award because Atlanta didn't even prepare a case as Dudley knew he didn't want to retain him.

So, there was no team argument against the contract that Mac's agent asked for...

Poor showing...because now that will affect other cases

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Los9090 wrote:
Jim Bob wrote:
Rumor is that Mac got a huge award because Atlanta didn't even prepare a case as Dudley knew he didn't want to retain him.

So, there was no team argument against the contract that Mac's agent asked for...

Poor showing...because now that will affect other cases

Dude, no it won't and I've explained it at least once in this thread alone why.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:51 am 
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It states in the CBA that any contract signed the year of arbitration cannot be used in the case for or against.

For god's sake, Mac's award has no bearing on anyone else.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:13 am 
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Can you bring up the actual clause on that, for posterity's sake.

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:43 am 
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Evidence of other contracts, arbitration awarded or not, is allowable if one party says that the player in question is comparable to another.

Evidence of an arbitration awarded contract is NOT admissible if the team walked away from the award, which happened in Mac's case, so it cannot be used.


Section 12, Salary Arbitration

Part 12.9, Rules of Procedure

Section (g)(ii)

Quote:
(ii) The parties may offer evidence of the following:
(A) the overall performance, including official statistics
prepared by the League (both offensive and defensive), of
the Player in the previous season or seasons;
(B) the number of games played by the Player, his injuries or
illnesses during the preceding seasons;
(C) the length of service of the Player in the League and/or
with the Club;
(D) the overall contribution of the Player to the competitive
success or failure of his Club in the preceding season;
(E) any special qualities of leadership or public appeal not
inconsistent with the fulfillment of his responsibilities as a
playing member of his team;
(F) the overall performance in the previous season or seasons
of any Player(s) who is alleged to be comparable to the
party Player whose salary is in dispute; and
(G) The compensation of any Player(s) who is alleged to be
comparable to the party Player, provided, however, that in
applying this or any of the above subparagraphs, the Salary
Arbitrator shall not consider a Player(s) to be comparable
to the party Player unless a party to the arbitration has
contended that the Player(s) is comparable; nor shall the
Salary Arbitrator consider the compensation or
performance of a Player(s) unless a party to the arbitration
has contended that the Player(s) is comparable.


Section (g)(iii)

Quote:
(iii) The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall
not be considered by the Salary Arbitrator:
(A) Any SPC the term of which began when the Player party to
such SPC was not a Group 2 Player;
59
(B) Any SPC entered into by an Unrestricted Free Agent,
including SPCs signed by Players after the Player's Club
has exercised a walk-away right pursuant to Section 12.10;
(C) The SPC of any Player who is not being offered as a
comparable Player to the party Player;
(D) Qualifying Offers made by the Club pursuant to Section
10.2(b);
(E) Any prior offers or history of negotiations between the
Player and the Club;
(F) Testimonials, videotapes, newspaper columns, press game
reports or similar materials;
(G) Any reference to actual or potential walk-away rights;
(H) Any award issued by a Salary Arbitrator as to which a Club
exercised its walk-away rights pursuant to Section 12.10;

(I) The financial condition of the Club or the League;
(J) References to a Club's Upper or Lower Limit, or to the
Players' Share;
(K) Any salary arbitration award issued in 2005-2006; or
(L) Any reference to any salary or other compensation
information in any salary arbitration opinion that took place
prior to the execution of this Agreement. If any salary
arbitration opinion issued prior to the execution of this
Agreement is cited as precedent, all references to any
Player's Player Paragraph 1 Salary or other compensation
information will be redacted.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:55 am 
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Thanks for that, homie. Now people will know what's up.

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jvaccaro6
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Still, in all arbitration cases in the past 3 years, it seems the salaries come out much higher than deserving for the player.

Primarily what I've been trying to get at in my past 6 posts.

I know the CBA, and I know you cant directly compare salaries issued that year, or salaries other teams walked away from, however; you can use them as a guage, as a third party (meaning us sitting on the outside, looking in) to tell whether arbitrators are siding with teams, or players. Over the past few years far more deals have gone in favor of the player rather than the team. Kennedy will be no exception, expect to over pay him for his worth.

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SABRESAllTheWay
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:50 pm 
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jvaccaro6 wrote:
Still, in all arbitration cases in the past 3 years, it seems the salaries come out much higher than deserving for the player.

Primarily what I've been trying to get at in my past 6 posts.

I know the CBA, and I know you cant directly compare salaries issued that year, or salaries other teams walked away from, however; you can use them as a guage, as a third party (meaning us sitting on the outside, looking in) to tell whether arbitrators are siding with teams, or players. Over the past few years far more deals have gone in favor of the player rather than the team. Kennedy will be no exception, expect to over pay him for his worth.

I hope the Sabres walk away from that type of scenario..

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:04 pm 
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jvaccaro6 wrote:
Still, in all arbitration cases in the past 3 years, it seems the salaries come out much higher than deserving for the player.

Primarily what I've been trying to get at in my past 6 posts.

I know the CBA, and I know you cant directly compare salaries issued that year, or salaries other teams walked away from, however; you can use them as a guage, as a third party (meaning us sitting on the outside, looking in) to tell whether arbitrators are siding with teams, or players. Over the past few years far more deals have gone in favor of the player rather than the team. Kennedy will be no exception, expect to over pay him for his worth.


Salaries in generally have been slowly ticking upwards since the current CBA was signed. Since a big part of the arbitration process is to compare the player in question to other players in the league, it makes sense that arbitration awards would also slowly be edging upwards.


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jvaccaro6
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:13 pm 
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We shall see, it's players like Kotalik, Tanguay, Foligno that they are going to be comparing Kennedy to; and stating what they got (which are all massively over paid except Foligno at 1.2M)

If it swings upwards of what Drew Stafford is making, I dont know how the Sabres could justify keeping Kennedy for potential when they could easily sign Stempniak or Guerin for similar money, and more overall production.

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Kennedy has been awarded $1M, the NHLPA announced

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:30 pm 
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That's fair. Right where it should be I think.


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mechaphil
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:33 pm 
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Here's one of those moment I want to slap Darcy in the back of the head: James Mirtle is reporting that the reason talks stalled is he wouldn't budge from the $600K-$800K range and balked at the Kennedy camp asking for $900K right before the arbitration hearing.

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SABRESAllTheWay
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Who wants to bet, he knew he was gonna go into arbitration and wanted to lowball to start. I imagine Darcy fully knows what he's to do in arbitration situations. Maybe he was OK with 1 mil in the first place, but had to play his cards the right way.

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mechaphil
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Mike Harrington believes there's a clause in the CBA which actually forces the Sabres to sign Kennedy instead of having walk-away right:

Mike tweeted:
Quote:
Looks like Sabres don't have walk-away rights because Kennedy's award is less than $1,042,173 as per 12.10 (a) of CBA


12.10(a) of the CBA reads:
Quote:
12.10 Walk-Away Rights for Player-Elected Salary Arbitration.
(a) If a Club has elected to arbitrate a one-year SPC, and the award issued is
for $1,042,173 or more per annum, then the Club may, within forty-eight (48) hours after
the award of the Salary Arbitrator is issued (or, if a Club has any other Player still eligible
for salary arbitration at that time and for whom a decision has not been rendered by a
Salary Arbitrator at that time, and the Club still has a walk-away right available to it in
such League Year pursuant to paragraph (c) below, forty-eight (48) hours after the award
of the Salary Arbitrator for such other Player is issued or that Player's arbitration case is
settled), notify the Player or his Certified Agent, if any, the NHLPA and the NHL in
writing, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof, that it does not intend to tender to the Player
an SPC based on the award as determined by the Salary Arbitrator. Upon receipt of that
notice, the Player shall automatically be deemed to be an Unrestricted Free Agent.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:43 pm 
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I'm ok with the price...and seriously? Darcy was bickering over a $100k difference in negotiations?
Come on man.

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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Wouldn't walk away from that deal anyways, it's just what he should get, and that is what I fully expect Blake Wheeler to get, maybe 500K more in his case too.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Yeah...that's a pretty dick move by Darcy over 100k.


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Skyline_BNR34
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:53 pm 
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Crosscheck wrote:
I'm ok with the price...and seriously? Darcy was bickering over a $100k difference in negotiations?
Come on man.

You got to remember, the GM's try to sign players with as little as a price as possible.

And arbitration is the only bargaining move a RFA even has.

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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
No need for violence, just tell her she's got a game misconduct and show her the door.

Rud wrote:
As I said in the GDT, the call on Rivet was horseshit. The Bruins player was holding onto Rivet's stick like it was the last fucking raft on the Titanic.


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Sabresfansince1980
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:55 pm 
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If that's the case, it definitely is poor handling of the situation. But again, how much of this is Darcy and how much of it is from Quinn/Golisano?? Darcy knows as well as anyone how market value looks and we pretty much were all guessing around 1 mil, so I don't get it.


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