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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:43 am 
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http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/03/autos/T ... htm?hpt=T2

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Federal safety regulators said Wednesday they have received 10 complaints from drivers alleging sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles that have already been repaired under the automaker's recent recall.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it has reached out to the consumers in question to gather more information about the complaints, which were not immediately verifiable.

"NHTSA has already started contacting consumers about these complaints to get to the bottom of the problem and to make sure Toyota is doing everything possible to make its vehicles safe," David Strickland, NHTSA's administrator, said in a prepared statement.

"If Toyota owners are still experiencing sudden acceleration incidents after taking their cars to the dealership, we want to know about it," he added.

Cindy Knight, a Toyota spokeswoman, said the company is aware of the post-repair complaints and has asked NHTSA to help Toyota contact the customers in question.

"We are confident that our Toyota vehicles are safe, and we're doing everything we can to ensure our customers are satisfied with the repairs we've been making," Knight said. "We have rigorously tested those solutions the Toyota engineers have developed and we're very aggressively investigating any complaints."

Toyota has recalled more than 8 million vehicles worldwide for problems related to sudden acceleration, which have been blamed for several accidents resulting in injuries and death. The automaker has repeatedly apologized for the lapses in quality control, and Toyota technicians are working extended hours to repair the recalled vehicles.

In testimony before the U.S. Senate Tuesday, Toyota executives said the automaker has already serviced about 1 million of the recalled vehicles.

The sudden acceleration issue has been in the spotlight since it was disclosed last month that an accident involving a Toyota vehicle killed four people in San Diego last August.

That accident sparked the recall of millions of Toyota vehicles for problems with floor mats that could cause accelerator pedals to become trapped. Toyota has subsequently recalled millions more cars for "sticky" accelerator pedals.

Since 2000, NHTSA has identified a total of 43 complaints of fatal incidents that allegedly involved sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles. While those complaints have not yet been confirmed, the reported incidents led to 52 fatalities and 38 injuries, NHTSA said.

Toyota has come under increasing pressure from Washington, with executives going before Congress in three separate hearings over the last two weeks.

Rep. Bruce Braley, D-Iowa, said he is "deeply concerned" about the possibility that repaired Toyota vehicles may still be prone to sudden acceleration.

"If these reports prove to be true, it is completely unacceptable that America's families are once again being put at risk," Braley said in a statement.

In a letter to Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, the congressman said the complaints highlight the need for a "thorough and credible investigations" into Toyota's safety record. He also questioned the effectiveness of recalls in ensuring the safety of the American public.

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:37 am 
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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:40 am 
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No one at Toyota wants to admit it's actually a software problem...which is exactly where all the evidence points.

This came up during the dog and pony show on capitol hill. The problem clearly isn't with floor mats or the physical gas pedal at all.

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NYIntensity
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:41 am 
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It seems like such a simple program to control, too :(

Maybe it's been over-engineered? Maybe a Rube-Goldberg esque design?

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Squanto
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:49 am 
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Steve Wozniak was screaming and yelling (as much as he actually yells) a couple weeks back that it was software. He was pissed that Toyota was ignoring his complaints that had data pointing in that direction.

I'm not sure what came of it, but knowing Woz, if they don't fix it he'll do it himself. :)


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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Rides on the Red Bullet of Death

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PuckSniperPensel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:58 pm 
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CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Rides on the Red Bullet of Death

$10


:lol:

Be careful, Crim, if you really do fit in that bracket. Read the instructions on what to do if it happens carefully.

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fly as hale
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:04 pm 
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U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

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Ryan911T
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:52 pm 
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I'm starting to get sick of hearing about this.

I do believe that Toyota DID mess up, and that some cars HAVE suffered from unintended acceleration. However, I know a lot of these cases claiming of U.A. are the result of the drivers, not the car. People don't drive responsibly today, take a look next time you're driving down the highway and see how many people are not paying attention because of a cell phone, GPS, radio, or just stupidity. Now with the news about unintended acceleration people can use that as an easy excuse, and blame the car not themselves. Notice that the reports of U.A. have shot up exponentially the past few months? Then of course they have to sue for it's the American way. The great thing for them is that no fault codes appear as a result of U.A. so it's basically the driver's word against Toyotas, and if Toyota blames it on the driver there would be outrage and appear as though they won't take responsibility. So they're backed into a corner.

I completely agree with Ian Law, a reputable auto journalist on the subject: http://www.wheels.ca/Columns/article/784681

Now I watched/listened to about 80% of both of the congressional hearings with Toyoda. I do believe that Jim Lentz was remorseful, and that Toyoda was too. I do think that they came off a bit arrogant when the U.A. problems started and it WAS mishandled badly by both Toyota AND NHTSA. I think the hearings were a waste of time, everyone seemed to ask the same questions, "Mr. Toyoda what do you plan to do to fix this?", "Mr. Toyoda how does this sudden U.A. occur?". Nothing productive came out of it, and I was ashamed that they weren't allowed to bow (a Japanese custom), and were getting flack for flying over in corporate jets - I don't recall them asking for bailout money.

It's funny how on pretty much ALL cars the brakes are designed to overpower the engine - unless the brakes have not been properly serviced. Car and Driver recently did a test while braking under full throttle, and on each car were able to bring it to a complete stop. This goes against almost everyone's testimony saying that they basically "stood on the brakes, yet the car did not stop". I don't see how the engine could suddenly get an incredible boost in power, so much so that it would overpower brakes that are designed to stop an engine at full throttle. For the one congressman to tell Jim Lenz that he hasn't been affected by a recall, and to hear Jim choke up and say that he's lost a family member to a Ford recall really irritated me, and I hope that congressman felt like a pile of crap for making that claim.

Car and Driver Article: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

Image

Now, if the car ever did experience U.A. it should be common sense to shift the car in to neutral, and apply the brakes - IF people were properly taught how to drive. It's sad seeing the number of people that don't know the basics of operating a motor vehicle, and it's because they aren't taught. They know how to put the car into "D", which pedal is the gas and brake, and put it in "P" before you turn it off, but thats about the extent.

When I hear people say that they don't feel safe in a Toyota, I get frustrated. It has happened to such an incredibly small percentage of cars. Toyota has sold millions and millions of cars in the US since 2005, of which only 1,133 complaints of U.A. were filed. It's like saying I don't feel safe in my car because I might run over a nail and the tire will pop, sending me into an uncontrollable spin. Take a look at all the other companies that had complaints of U.A. http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/02/toyota-leads-in-nhtsa-unintended-acceleration-complaints-edmundscom-analysis-shows.html
Quote:
Rounding out the Big Six are, in order of highest complaints to lowest are: Ford, including Ford, Lincoln and Mercury models, with 387 complaints; Chrysler, including Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge models, with 171 complaints; General Motors, including Chevrolet, Pontiac, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn, Saab, Buick and Hummer brands, with 152 complaints; Honda, including its Acura division, with 113 complaints; and Nissan, including its Infiniti, Division with 62 complaints.
If you really don't feel confident in yourself that you can shift a car into neutral, apply the brakes, and turn off the engine then why drive?

Now I don't want you to walk away thinking that I believe Toyota should be exonerated from this whole thing. They did mess up, and while their cars are still looked at as the benchmark for quality, the past few years has seen a SLIGHT decrease in Toyota quality, especially with their interiors. They need to find a fix for this problem and LISTEN to customers. I would STILL recommend a Toyota as an automotive journalist, the company has such a rich history of quality and durability. Any mechanic will still tell you that Toyotas and Hondas are some of the easiest and best engineered cars they work on. I believe that Toyota will bounce back although it may take time since Americans have such a sour taste in their mouths. I am excited about some of their new products particularly the FT-86 and LFA.

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Crosscheck
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Yes, other companies have complaints of UA going back years, but this particular incarnation is Toyota specific.

I heard a report from NPR yesterday from a guy that went through the database of all UA reports since 1990 and found some interesting results.

For the 2009 model year, Toyota accounted for a 16% market share of vehicles sold, but a 53% share of incidents of UA.

The NHTSA watches that ratio when making decisions about a particular manufacturer or model.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =124235858

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CriminallyVu1gar
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:22 pm 
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PuckSniperPensel wrote:
CriminallyVu1gar wrote:
Rides on the Red Bullet of Death

$10


:lol:

Be careful, Crim, if you really do fit in that bracket. Read the instructions on what to do if it happens carefully.


I do and I know the sequence of what I would do all the way down to the absolute worst case of trying to roll the vehicle.

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